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Congress didn't give a *sugar* when they lowered prices when the rebates went away. Why would they care now?
What kind of bad press do you think they'll get when 500,000 people order the cheapest Tesla and wait times go to 9 months instead of the current 2 to 3?
Tesla isn't a charity.
Their goal is to reach an equilibrium in the market with how much their cars cost and how many they can sell. If the cars get too cheap, it doesn't help them, and in reality will hurt them because demand will rise too much.
Right now, they're near an equilibrium, they've got slightly more demand than they can supply. If that tips further the only logical thing is for them to raise prices to get that equilibrium back. The side effect is that this solution also substantially increases their profit per vehicle which again, if you're Tesla is good.
They can use those additional profits to increase production, increase quality, add new products etc... But the idea that a publicly traded company would just say, nah, we don't need the money, let them all buy cars we can't make is laughable.
Does anyone know if the proposed changes for the bill will still require federal tax owed for the rebate? Part 4, Sec. 136401 states: This provision provides for a refundable income tax credit for new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicles placed into service by the taxpayer during the taxable year.
Does the word "refundable" change things? How will dealerships know if the buyer owed enough federal taxes to receive the full rebate at time of sale (since one of the proposed changes is that the dealership can receive the rebate directly, and the rebate taken off for the purchaser at the time of sale).
I know this is all speculation since nothing official has passed. In an example of the full "union" amount proposed of $12,500 - How many people owed over $12,500 in federal taxes?
Does the word "refundable" change things? How will dealerships know if the buyer owed enough federal taxes to receive the full rebate at time of sale (since one of the proposed changes is that the dealership can receive the rebate directly, and the rebate taken off for the purchaser at the time of sale).
I know this is all speculation since nothing official has passed. In an example of the full "union" amount proposed of $12,500 - How many people owed over $12,500 in federal taxes?
Jeremy3292
Active Member
MontyFloyd
Member
Tesla prices tend to be sticky in my experience and don't flow due to supply and demand alone. Tesla certainly isn't afraid to adjust prices suddenly and without warning, but I've only heard of one instance where Tesla didn't honor the original order price. And in that special case it wasn't that Tesla wouldn't honor it, it just didn't deliver the car before the buyer was sick of waiting and grabbed an LFP.
I'm my case, I've ordered the cheapest Tesla model and trim. I think Tesla wants to keep that entry level Tesla under $40k. If anything, Tesla wants to reduce that entry level price.
I would not be shocked to see Tesla raise prices a little bit on new orders in the coming weeks (other than M3 SR+ perhaps), but I would bet that would be combined with FSD becoming standard, at least for highway driving. I can see the SR+ going all LFP, at $40k, with standard FSD (for highways).
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My understanding is that "refundable" changes things considerably. A refundable tax credit means you can get the entire benefit even if you have no tax liability at all. Makes the tax credit useful to basically everyone, especially because it would become point of sale (transferable to the manufacturer/dealer).
seems like this administration isnt gonna get it done anytime soon... politics as usual
Regarding EV credits, Manchin said he want hydrogen vehicles also included. I doubt that is a deal breaker for Kildee and Stabenow who are behind the current EV credit revision in the proposed $3.5T reconciliation package. I think it's about 50/50 to see something that goes in effect for 1/1/22.
Here's a good summary as of OCT 2021 of where the different proposals on tax credits stand.
Yes, I read that article - they did a very good job of breaking things down.Here's a good summary as of OCT 2021 of where the different proposals on tax credits stand.
I don’t know what to do! I want to order now but I need a January delivery date. Tesla is saying estimated delivery is in December if I order now
I placed my order earlier this month. I toyed with the idea of trying to delay my order, but I'm also trying to time selling my existing M3 and lock in the high used value. If I waited to sell my car until Dec/Jan, the value could drop significantly, especially if the EV credit officially comes back. So I'm planning on selling the car as soon as next week to lock that value in, and then renting a car for maybe no more than a month, since my current estimate is 15 Nov - 14 Dec. I suppose I could sell the car now and try to delay my order, and keep the rental car longer. That'd get the best of both worlds, but I'm sure Tesla won't willingly let people delay deliveries since they always want to deliver as many as possible before the end of the quarter.
HeatproofGenie
Member
Yes, this creates quite the quandary for us with December delivery dates.
I'm upgrading from a '18 LR Model 3 and resale is so good that it's around $1k out of pocket after CO $2,500 rebate to upgrade. That's amazing but to get and additional $7,500 back as we definitely have the tax liability is very hard to ignore and not try and get.
Problem for us is we need to vehicles much of the time and have an offer now to sell. Sure the offer might stay strong but the used market could change too although used Model 3s appear to be rare here in CO. I could sell now and then rent an ICE car but that adds up quick. Hard to say what would be more expensive; rent a car for needed time (huge hassle) or keep the 3 and then sell when new car comes and hope market is still strong and depreciation continues to be low.
I'm upgrading from a '18 LR Model 3 and resale is so good that it's around $1k out of pocket after CO $2,500 rebate to upgrade. That's amazing but to get and additional $7,500 back as we definitely have the tax liability is very hard to ignore and not try and get.
Problem for us is we need to vehicles much of the time and have an offer now to sell. Sure the offer might stay strong but the used market could change too although used Model 3s appear to be rare here in CO. I could sell now and then rent an ICE car but that adds up quick. Hard to say what would be more expensive; rent a car for needed time (huge hassle) or keep the 3 and then sell when new car comes and hope market is still strong and depreciation continues to be low.
Jeremy3292
Active Member
The bill text has not been released and we do not know the timeline for when the credit will be effective. The link below shows you the proposed differences in the bills in the house and the senate and that we need to see the actual bill text to know for sure, which they haven’t even written yet.
www.voltequity.com
The Tesla EV Tax Credit
The Clean Energy Act for America would have a positive impact on Tesla by making most Tesla cars eligible for an $8,000 (House version) or $10,000 (Senate version) refundable tax credit and handicapping Chinese EVs from entering the US market. However, Tesla does not employ unionized labor, so...
www.voltequity.com
Yeah sounds like we're in exactly the same boat. I'm also selling a '18 LR M3. I think i'm going to sell mine next week as I think the value can only go down from here. And I found a friend which will let me use his 3rd car for much less than renting one, so that will take the pressure off. I'm still not sure I'll do anything to delay the delivery date, as I don't think Tesla would make that easy, and this bill is still not law.
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