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Porsche Mission E
- Thread starter MartinAustin
- Start date
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Well, people have to have something to talk about for 3+ more years. ;-)
This doesn't look like mission E at all. This must be an electric conversion of p p p Panamera.Is This the Porsche Mission E Prototype Testing at the Arctic Circle?
Maybe I should also post it in Electric Conversions
Dan43
Member
Yes it looks like a Panamera Coupe or Coupe SUV in style, the Mission E appears more 911 in style and focus in design.
Might be interesting to see if Porsche create a small range of EV cars.
The Mission E does look interesting with that Porsche interior.
Might be interesting to see if Porsche create a small range of EV cars.
The Mission E does look interesting with that Porsche interior.
Rashomon
Member
Pretty interesting comment in the German Tesla forum with notes from a speech of the head of the electric R&D department at Porsche.
I visited the event (it was very well attended). Mr Bitsche was greeted with a good dose of skepticism, but managed to attract the majority of the public. A Saalkommentar: "Loud Tesla driver, who claps."
To the lecture a few unsorted memorandums:
Porsche sets the mission E to 800V onboard voltage. Reason: Keep cable cross sections small, this is about 50kg weight. The charging power of 350kW is the theoretical maximum value from the basic data of the extended CCS standard (1000V, 350A).
The difference to the vehicle voltage can be explained as follows: The power semiconductors in the charging column require a voltage resistance of 1200V, so that they can reliably switch up to 1000V.
When charging, 920V are connected to the 800V battery, so that the corresponding charging current also flows.
The required components have now been brought to 800V in cooperation with the suppliers.
- cell is delivered, manufacturers and chemistry are still secret
- the battery is built by Porsche itself
- E-machine, power electronics, charger, air-conditioning compressor, HV heater, DC / DC converter: all 800V ready
Solar and wind power plants, which have now used such voltages and have developed the components with the necessary voltage resistance: semiconductors, cables, contactors, connectors.
The wind power manufacturers want to sell their technology as unchanged in America as possible, so the voltage limit in the NEC (national electric code) has been raised from 600V to 1000V -> Electricians with "normal" training may also work on 800V vehicles.
For charging DC chargers with previous 400V technology, an HV booster with at least 50kW rated output is installed in each vehicle, which converts the 400V to 800V
There are good prospects for introducing the standard with these key data in the US and China, except in Europe. Japan is beaten off with CHAdeMO (450V, 200A max.)
- 5 technologists have been set up last summer and are testing in all climatic zones of the world
- Next, the test fleet will be set up.
To the mission E itself: 4 seats, 4 doors, innovative cockpit, full connectivity, semi-autonomous (not wanting to say which level), 2 E machines (1 on each axle), with Torque Vectoring, battery in the Unterboden, highest crash safety, high longitudinal - and transverse dynamics, heat pump for heating. 2 tons weight.
Special feature of the drive: Design for high continuous power (fast drive, fast charge, more ...) by cells with low internal resistance and by permanent magnet-excited synchronous motors (without manual transmission) and stator cooling.
This motor does not have the same temperature problem as the asynchronous motor in Tesla (heat development in the rotor) and is more efficient.
Charging network: Joint venture with the other OEMs is just being formed. Start work to rollout. In Europe, 400 sites are to be created with 2 to 12 loading points before the sales start. The locations require connection to 20 kV medium voltage. Alternatively, local battery storage is planned. The store network is viewed as critical to the sales success. The high charging capacity serves the acceptance for changeover of burners. Target are recharge 400km range in 15 minutes.
Fuel cells shut down Her Bitsche, does not provide enough continuous power or needs too much space in the Porsche.
The mission E is to go to the end of the decade in the sale, price comparable to a Panamera (did not want to say more precisely).
One more statement: Porsche is fully behind the electrification strategy, the board and the development team. The hybrids sell very well. Sales personnel and workshop personnel are already qualified accordingly.
Pretty much as predicted. PMAC motors and a high-power, low-resistance pack with good cooling. Lots of emphasis relative to Tesla on sustained performance, so you can drain your battery really, really quickly on the autobahn
It will be a very good car. Sales will depend on how quickly the charging infrastructure gets built out, and the pricing. I suspect they'll forgo some of Porsche's typical enormous margins, and bring the base version in at $80,000 or so. They'll make it up with performance editions and dropping costs as the VW group scales component volumes.
I doubt it. We are talking about Porsche. I expect the base car to be well over $100,000. The volumes are going to be very low, making it difficult to keep the price down.
If the Mission E goes on sale before December 2020 I will be amazed.
There was a story on IEV, today, saying 2019, which I also strongly doubt. I'm still in the phase where everything I read about the other OEMs, I wonder if its pre, or post-Trump? The lack of a traveling provision, and the CARB waiver, greatly reduces the need to sell BEV effectively in every of the ~15 CARB states. That said, I'm unsure if VW/Audi were going to fill that quota for the group, anyway, and whether Mission E's plan would be unaffected.
It's a promising car. Two non-Tesla things I see showing up are much higher regen rates, up to 150KW, and the fact that VW Group already gets above average electric power from its, currently, small PHEV batteries. The 918 describes itself as 200KW capable, from 6.8KWh. Longevity-no idea. The thing you know they're going to do is beef the cooling system. Spending/storing energy is hopefully where we get to see some genuine LMP1 (919?) tech come into the car.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
VW, The parent company of Porsche has a long way to go to gain some credibility in the electric vehicle market
Tesla Model S’ success screwed VW’s plans for the new electric Phaeton, CEO admits
At the Geneva Motor Show this week, Diess says that Tesla has been pushing the benchmark in the segment and they had to rethink their plans in order to compete (via Autocar): “We were quite far advanced with the next Phaeton but it became clear it wasn’t enough of a leap forwards. A modern large saloon has to be competitive and have an advantage over the Tesla, which is the benchmark and in many regions dominates the segment. Now, if we go back there, we have to take Tesla seriously, and of course that is what we are doing with our electric strategy.”
Before the change of plan, the next generation Phaeton was expected in 2020 – around the time VW is expected to release its first vehicles on its new MEB platform for electric vehicles. Apparently, the specs that VW was planning for the new electric Phaeton were not on par with Tesla’s Model S, which is to say a lot for a vehicle released in 2012 with a refresh in 2016 versus a vehicle planned for 2020.
The VW Group seems more confident about competing against the Model S with Porsche’s upcoming Mission E. The all-electric sedan is expected in 2019 and has been announced with features competitive with the current version of the Model S.
Tesla Model S’ success screwed VW’s plans for the new electric Phaeton, CEO admits
At the Geneva Motor Show this week, Diess says that Tesla has been pushing the benchmark in the segment and they had to rethink their plans in order to compete (via Autocar): “We were quite far advanced with the next Phaeton but it became clear it wasn’t enough of a leap forwards. A modern large saloon has to be competitive and have an advantage over the Tesla, which is the benchmark and in many regions dominates the segment. Now, if we go back there, we have to take Tesla seriously, and of course that is what we are doing with our electric strategy.”
Before the change of plan, the next generation Phaeton was expected in 2020 – around the time VW is expected to release its first vehicles on its new MEB platform for electric vehicles. Apparently, the specs that VW was planning for the new electric Phaeton were not on par with Tesla’s Model S, which is to say a lot for a vehicle released in 2012 with a refresh in 2016 versus a vehicle planned for 2020.
The VW Group seems more confident about competing against the Model S with Porsche’s upcoming Mission E. The all-electric sedan is expected in 2019 and has been announced with features competitive with the current version of the Model S.
It looks like the target is moved up a bit,
"According to Porsche's CEO, by 2023, half of the cars rolling off the company's production line will be electric. With this statement, Porsche joins other major automakers like Volvo and GM in betting on a future in which EVs are far more widely adopted."
Porsche’s CEO Just Announced the Company’s Big Plans to Transition to Electric Cars
"According to Porsche's CEO, by 2023, half of the cars rolling off the company's production line will be electric. With this statement, Porsche joins other major automakers like Volvo and GM in betting on a future in which EVs are far more widely adopted."
Porsche’s CEO Just Announced the Company’s Big Plans to Transition to Electric Cars
Sean Wagner
Member
Porsche registered 18 purely electric vehicles in Germany last month - presumably prototypes.
Source: official stats via ecomento.tv [German site] comments
Source: official stats via ecomento.tv [German site] comments
Rashomon
Member
Porsche leadership has said that Mission E will be priced under Panamera, so probably about the same starting price as an Model S. I assume the top end version will near $150K, just like a fully optioned P100D.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
I could see that happening... If Porsche actually wants to sell the Mission E in large quantities, but their strategy even for Panamera has seemed to be 'exclusivity' as a goal, not ubiquity. I suspect that if they do offer more competitive pricing at full production levels, it is only as a replacement for their lost dirty diesel sales. But I still believe their intent is to remain primarily an ICE vehicle manufacturer, and 'electrify' most of their cars as hybrids, rather than commit to fully electric vehicles as a strategy going forward. If the Mission E ends up being only a showpiece car meant for bragging rights then it would be available only in limited numbers and would command a much higher price point. Hence, $300,000 per vehicle to start, with an additional $50,000 for every jump of 15 kWh in battery pack capacity.
Of course Porsche will be very hesitant to switch away from ICE, especially for their sportier products like the 718 and the 911. That crowd is even more chocked filled with complainers than the Tesla crowd. The history of those two cars is filled with customer complaints about design and engineering changes: switching from NA Flat-6 to Turbo Flat-4 (718), gimping the Cayman to not encroach on 911 performance numbers, adding turbos to the 911, and so on.
Most Porsche fans were happy that corporate dumped the PHEV 911 plans.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Keep in mind that the current halo performance vehicle is the Hybrid 918
Porsche 918 Spyder - WikipediaAttachments
"The buyers of Mission E will find a large-scale charging infrastructure with high-power chargers."
Interview with Michael Kiefer, Head of High-Voltage Systems at Porsche Engineering, about HPC
Interview with Michael Kiefer, Head of High-Voltage Systems at Porsche Engineering, about HPC
Sean Wagner
Member
Great resource, thank you. Apart from the tech updates straight from the source, I find it especially interesting to read that a Europe-wide 800V high power charger network is supposed to be made available at launch of the Mission E [mainly centered around Porsche dealerships, and set up by an as yet unkown outside firm].
I guess electric cars will only have "arrived" in Germany when a silent Porsche is seen zooming about.
Someone will undoubtedly post pics of those protoypes purported to soon be slurping the power at Berlin-Adlershof.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
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