Porsche Mission E

[McRat]

He calls it a "game changer." How so? ...

The video was about handling at a track. Only $,$$$,$$$ EVs have addressed what has become expected in cars costing over $70,000.

I don't agree with 'game changer' until either I see lap times, or get to lap one myself.

Was he really thrashing on it? Not convinced. It feels funny to be on a track without a helmet. He would not have been comfy. I did not see him put some significant oversteer into it. No rollcage means he was not expecting to exceed 100mph, His shoulder harness wasn't even locked. I think Porsche did more harm than good with that video. When Caddy wanted to impress the peasants over a decade ago, this is what they release (cameras were not as good in 2008): Cadillac Pressroom - Europe - Videos

If it's just another heavy 4 door with mediocre track manners, it's not a game changer. No <8 minutes, and it's already a decade out of date. Cars today are WAY faster.

Was the 918 a game changer? If my ears were right, he mentioned it.

Sort of. Yes, it proved a plug-in hybrid could beat supercars around a track, but it's price put it where they could have built something out of titanium honeycomb with carbon fiber rims running off plutonium (is plutonium still a metal since Pluto is not a planet?).

But there still are no competitively priced PHEVs that can thump on mid-priced ICE track cars. Not even at twice the price. And no EVs need apply yet. A $70k performance ICE coupe will run comparable lap times to the 918. That's the target, even at $140k.

 

[Jeff N]

As for where you will fast DC charge it in the US, I suppose initially some Porsche dealerships will have chargers, but of course that’s not a useful long distance charging network. There are a small number of combo CCS chargers out there, but not many.

I agree with much of what you said but you’re in denial about the charging network. The Mission E and related Porsche cars will be able to charge exclusively, I presume, at some Porsche dealers at “350 kW” chargers but also at any of Electrify America’s (VW Group’s) ~300 highway locations which are planned to be open by the time that the Mission E goes on sale in the US in late 2019 or early 2020. It’s looking like even obscure rural EA locations will have at least a couple of charging spaces that are “350 kW” rated along with others that are “150 kW”. Similar things are happening in Europe.

These are two versions of the same planned map for ~300 highway locations and plus another ~180 community metro locations in 17 areas with 50 kW and 150 kW charging targeted for completion or at least under construction by June, 2019 and presumably finished by early 2020.

 

[Lerha]

...
and what the hell are those exhaust ports for?
...

I think that the production vehicle obviously will not have "exhaust ports", I reckon they are in these test vehicles to not draw attention to the fact that its Mission E if they're on the road, possibly?
It doesn't have them on the website Tribute to tomorrow. Porsche Concept Study Mission E. | Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG
It looks pretty much identical to the concept, just that the lights are not on? The colour black makes it harder to see details too.

 

[hiroshiy]

Not sure this aspect was discussed already on other Mission E threads, I'd like to hear opinions about the battery.

They claim that it will go 400km NEDC with less than 20 minutes charge. I assume that's 80%, so 100% would be at 500km NEDC.
With Model S P100D, 100kWh battery with NEDC 613km or EPA 506km.

How much battery pack they are going to use? If same as Audi e-tron and 95kWh, 95kWh battery Tesla would have 582km NEDC so that's 16.4% more efficient than Mission E. Assume it's as efficient as Model S (should be), then the battery is 16.4% oversized. It could live with 82kWh battery.

Is it possible that Porsche decided to keep 16.4% for degradation protection? If you always charge to 86% at 100% charge, and to approx 70% at 80% charge, degradation would be much smaller and charge to "actual 70%" would be much faster.
Also charging always at 350/95=3.7C is very stressful for a battery, even latest NMC?

 

[PhantomX]

This car is camouflage to hide its true appearance, therefore the odd body panels and the fake exhaust. Car manufacturers are known to do this all the time, whether it's electric or not.

I don't think it's a game changer because of it being an EV, but it's a game changer because it'll be capable of running on tracks just like others cars in Porsche line up. That's something no other mass production EV can claim right now. Think of the Nordschleife, how many production EV can put up a respectable time there? I am guessing Mission E will try to get closer to its Panamera brother's time of 7:38, which will be one of the fastest sedans out there.

 

[FlatSix911]

Interesting review and video ... Porsche’s all-electric Mission E is a ‘game change’, says pro-driver Mark Webber after test drive

There are not many people who had the chance to drive the Mission E, Porsche’s first all-electric vehicle, but pro-driver Mark Webber is one of them and he gave his impressions after a day at the track with one of the latest prototypes.Now Webber works for Porsche so he is not exactly an unbiased party, but I still think his comments, especially his comparisons with other Porsche vehicles, were interesting.

Here’s what he had to say after a Mission E test drive at Porsche’s test track in Weissach: “I’ve got many Porsche moments that will stay with me forever – winning the WEC in the 919 Hybrid would be one – and I think I’ve just experienced another: driving the Mission E for the first time. It’s a game changer, this car. Quite literally, it is stealth in motion.

I’m a bit of an old-school kind of guy and I love nothing more than to drive so I don’t mind admitting I had some reservations. I thought that the Mission E could feel a little heavy but the driving experience is seriously dynamic: the four-wheel steering, the performance and the braking ability were a really amazing experience.

Porsche says that they are aiming for the vehicle to have “over 310 miles of range” (500 km) on a single charge, but they announced that back when it was based on the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC), which is much more forgiving than the EPA rating and doesn’t really reflect real-world range. It’s should still have a more than decent range of more than 250 miles.

Though the automaker is also rumored to be aiming to offer different range options with different battery packs, it’s not clear if 250 miles is the base or top option – hopefully, it’s the minimum. The company has previously been talking about a 0 to 60 mph acceleration in 3.5 seconds and earlier this year, a Porsche executive said that the Mission E will be able to go long distances at high-speed, like traveling on the German autobahn, or to complete a few laps on the race track. The Mission E is expected to hit production next year.

 

[T34ME]

but it's a game changer because it'll be capable of running on tracks just like others cars in Porsche line up.

I don't think track racing is a very big market, anywhere in the world. My definition of "game changer" is a bit different.

 

[PhantomX]

I don't think track racing is a very big market, anywhere in the world. My definition of "game changer" is a bit different.

It's not a big market, but it is the Porsche market.

 

[T34ME]

It's not a big market, but it is the Porsche market.

How does that change the game?

 

[PhantomX]

How does that change the game?

That there are no production family EV's currently capable of lapping tracks properly?

 

[Uncle Paul]

I predict that the New Roadster will have higher performance capabilities than the Porsche.

Believe that most tracked EVs will be fitted with Ceramic Braking systems, combined with aggressive regenerative braking to handle the higher weights of the batteries. Cooling systems will be upgraded and tire specialized tires will be engineered to handle the tremendous cornering forces.

The game indeed will be changed.

First on the drag strip and then at the shorter road courses. EVs will little by little chip away at current ICE records.

Saw that at Pikes peak races, most of the newer successful vehicles will have electric power.

 

[T34ME]

That there are no production family EV's currently capable of lapping tracks properly?

Model 3 according to those who do that sort of thing.

 

[Valore]

I predict that the New Roadster will have higher performance capabilities than the Porsche.

Yes, but at 215.000€.


Furthermore, test drive will start late 2019, so available sometime late 2020 or 2021.
Tesla Roadster Test Drives To Start In Late 2019

Porsche can be bought next year, rumored starting price in Europe around 80000€.
Also, Mission-E will not be their last EV.....

 

[outie]

It's not a big market, but it is the Porsche market.

What % of Porsche owners actually take their cars to the track?

 

[Canuck]

I agree with much of what you said but you’re in denial about the charging network.

Count me in the denial thread. Wait, I don't need to be in denial because it's admitted in the purely PR maps you posted that no chargers are "planned" in Canada at all. But even as to the US "planned" ones, anyone looking to buy a Porsche EV has to keep in mind it stays at home or you have "faith" in the plans -- or rely on public chargers -- been there and done that and I'm never going back. Most people also won't -- because people know faith is BS -- and facts are needed. Here's a fact: of all the "planned" ones in the US on the map, no one has actually pulled a permit to build one, and there's been nothing stopping them from doing so. Tesla's been doing that for years now.

I would give the Porsche a serious look if they *had* and not "planned" a fast charging network -- this is all about competition -- which we want. You readily give Porsche a pass based on your faith in them. We don't. I think us hecklers at Porsche are doing them more of a favour (and more importantly the EV movement) than people like you who readily give them a pass in 2018 based on "plans" to build a fast charging network. I was recently talking to a Bolt owner at the Kamloops supercharger where he relied on a Clipper Creek at 6 kW while I was supercharging and I discussed his CCS and fast charging options -- which really are pathetic. Shame on GM too.

It's funny how the maps look like Tesla supercharger maps -- so they are likely being used to show prospective purchasers "Porsche vs. Tesla - fast charging comparison". Except that one exists and one doesn't -- but that's just minor details people -- come back and look at the Porsche!

 

[PhantomX]

What % of Porsche owners actually take their cars to the track?

Not sure the exact numbers, but it is more than most other brand. It is still a small percentage, but we got to remember Porsche's heritage and it's image. Just like it continues to develop and push the GT3's and making it do what was deem impossible a few years ago. I would be very surprised if Porsche release a car that is not ready to tackle Nordschleife with proper pace.

 

[Canuck]

It is still a small percentage, but we got to remember Porsche's heritage and it's image.

Why? Catering to a small percentage makes no sense. As to heritage and image, the horse and buggy makers worried about that too, instead of making ICE -- which they left to Ford and the rest and is history.

I would be very surprised if Porsche release a car that is not ready to tackle Nordschleife with proper pace.

If that's what they're working on, instead of building a fast charging network, and competitors to the S/X/3, they will go the way of the horse and buggy makers who also had great heritage and image. This is what they should be worried about, instead of nonsense for a small percentage of people:

Tesla’s Model S outsells Mercedes S-Class, Porsche Panamera, and BMW 6/7 Series combined in the US

Tesla’s Model S outsold Germany’s flagship sedans in Europe in 2017

Zero to 60 is important to most people --- not top end speed.

 

[PhantomX]

Model 3 according to those who do that sort of thing.

It has better drivetrain capability than Model S and X for track duties, but not the entire package. I believe everyone that has driven a Model 3 on a track has said it doesn't have proper braking setup for the track. I doubt you'll see that from Porsche when Mission E is released. Mission E won't have a system ready to go full distance in a race, but I am certain it'll have a good setup to run properly for occasional track runs.

 

[PhantomX]

Why? Catering to a small percentage makes no sense. As to heritage and image, the horse and buggy makers worried about that too, instead of making ICE -- which they left to Ford and the rest and is history.



If that's what their working on, instead of building a fast charging network, and competitors to the S/X/3, they will go the way of the horse and buggy makers who also had great heritage and image. Actually, it's already happening:

Tesla’s Model S outsells Mercedes S-Class, Porsche Panamera, and BMW 6/7 Series combined in the US

Tesla’s Model S outsold Germany’s flagship sedans in Europe in 2017

Then why do they continue to push the envelope with GT3, GT3RS, and GT2RS? Why build GT4, or make sure Panamera and Cayenne can run on tracks?

 

[noicepls]

The video was about handling at a track. Only $,$$$,$$$ EVs have addressed what has become expected in cars costing over $70,000.

I don't agree with 'game changer' until either I see lap times, or get to lap one myself.

Was he really thrashing on it? Not convinced. It feels funny to be on a track without a helmet. He would not have been comfy. I did not see him put some significant oversteer into it. No rollcage means he was not expecting to exceed 100mph, His shoulder harness wasn't even locked. I think Porsche did more harm than good with that video. When Caddy wanted to impress the peasants over a decade ago, this is what they release (cameras were not as good in 2008): Cadillac Pressroom - Europe - Videos

If it's just another heavy 4 door with mediocre track manners, it's not a game changer. No <8 minutes, and it's already a decade out of date. Cars today are WAY faster.

Was the 918 a game changer? If my ears were right, he mentioned it.

Sort of. Yes, it proved a plug-in hybrid could beat supercars around a track, but it's price put it where they could have built something out of titanium honeycomb with carbon fiber rims running off plutonium (is plutonium still a metal since Pluto is not a planet?).

But there still are no competitively priced PHEVs that can thump on mid-priced ICE track cars. Not even at twice the price. And no EVs need apply yet. A $70k performance ICE coupe will run comparable lap times to the 918. That's the target, even at $140k.

HUH? Your whole posting is nothing but a befuddled lack of expertise regarding Porsche's sports EV. Just the biggest time waster read of the day that makes only one thing clear - an expression of inexplicable anti-Porsche bias.. "Just another heavy 4 door with mediocre track manners"? Try not feed us such crap, please!
Ever been on a track? I have, several times, and no a helmet is not mandatory unless it's a competition event. The Mission E is not for trackies only - it's for the general public. I could smite everything in your drivel of a post, but it's not worth the time, certainly not mine. Come back when you have fact-based intelligence to share.