Public Level 1 Charging

[brkaus]

So, it's not all the parking spaces, just a few?

The airport lot I frequent has about 40 EV spots (100s of regular sports). They are typically all full of teslas. Those teslas can likely make it round trip from anywhere in the city to the airport and back easily. Sure, there are folks that could really use the energy to get home. There are also some (I suspect many) that are just looking for the free energy (so it’s advertising fir the parking lot).

 

[gnuarm]

The airport lot I frequent has about 40 EV spots (100s of regular sports). They are typically all full of teslas. Those teslas can likely make it round trip from anywhere in the city to the airport and back easily. Sure, there are folks that could really use the energy to get home. There are also some (I suspect many) that are just looking for the free energy (so it’s advertising fir the parking lot).

No one from outside the city can use the airport?

 

[brkaus]

No one from outside the city can use the airport?

And I guess we will never know who needs it vs who’s just value charging as long as there is no additional fee.

 

[stopcrazypp]

And I guess we will never know who needs it vs who’s just value charging as long as there is no additional fee.

Yep, I recently tried my luck with some free J1772 chargers that was along my travel route just to top a few miles to have a bit more buffer and they were all full. Never underestimate the lengths people will go to freeload things.

 

[cwerdna]

I've been super busy and dead tired. Will respond to the rest of your reply later.

You seem to misunderstand what I'm saying about the mobile cable. If you have it, and run into a situation where you can not reach a charger, you can use that cable as a last line of defense, charging from any household outlet. If you fail to bring it, you might as well be broken down, since you car will need to be towed.

I'm just saying, there's zero advantage to leaving it at home.


That's wonderful if you can reach one and it works. I hope you never find yourself a long way from home, unable to drive, because that level 1 charger isn't working.


This is hubris. Good luck with continuing your trend. You keep talking about not needing the cable. You have not provided one bit of info on why you don't bring it.

It is a total waste of time to bother with bringing an L1 120 volt EVSE on a road trip in areas where there is plenty of DC fast chargers and some L2 as backup as long as you have planned and looked at sites on Plugshare.

Just look at Denny's in Lebec, CA (circled in green) to Madera, CA (circled in red). It's only 158 miles between those two points. Look how many CCS DC FC sites (orange markers) there are on highway 99! How many times do you really need to charge on that stretch of highway on car with over 200 mile EPA range? When I leased my '22 Niro EV and drove it 450 miles home from Carlsbad, CA (used an auto broker who didn't ship), I charged once in Santa Clarita before the Grapevine (over 4000 ft climb) and charged a bit too much (put in too much juice), paying $5.58. My next two DC FCs were free, in McFarland (no longer free) then Madera Maintenance Station | Madera, CA | EV Station.

Start from Carlsbad (near San Diego), CA, go north on highway 5 then where it possible, cut over to highway 99 north instead of continuing on 5 (99 has WAY more DC FCing). Then, take highway 152 west, a bit north of Madera then take 101 north. That was my path home. Visit PlugShare - EV Charging Station Map - Find a place to charge and filter by plugs, CCS/SAE Combo. Look at that path on Plugshare.

For kicks, turn on J-1772 (they'll show up in green). I wouldn't use those for long distance travel.

If I was that poor in planning and had to fallback to L1, I may as well be towed to a DC FC or L2 EVSE. You'll only get 1.44 kW max, assuming you can even find an outlet that is in decent shape (no loose prongs), won't overheat, won't trip a breaker, melt or cause an outlet fire (e.g. PiP w/outlet fire at home due to aluminum wire - My Nissan Leaf Forum (visual aid at PiP w/outlet fire at home due to aluminum wire - My Nissan Leaf Forum, cause at Need advice - Outlet caught fire). Running around to find a working outlet w/o those probs causes unnecessary stress besides glacial charging speeds.

A reason to NOT bring it is because if someone breaks into my car, it will likely cost more to replace it (my current car is leased) than a tow anyway. And, at best, I might get 2 to 4 "miles per hour" of charging. I may as well look for L2 EVSE which usually will give you ~6 kW. If I find a CCS DC FC, on my current car, most DC FCs will net me 30ish to 70ish kW. All this can easily be found on Plugshare.

Yes, people have had their L1 EVSEs stolen either when plugged in outside or due to someone breaking into their car.

Of course it is "standard". That's why I don't know what you meant by saying it is standard. In fact, the standard number is... wait for it... J1772!

So, what was your point in saying this?

Sorry, I'm not following this at all. I think you are using "standard" to mean it is everywhere or something like that. That's not what standard means to me. Pick another word.

I was answering for someone else since you didn't get what he was saying. Do you understand the concept of standard equipment, as in, included?

Level 1 and 2 AC charging capability is standard (INCLUDED) with mass market highway legal consumer BEV automobiles sold in the US since Dec 2010. And, for non-Teslas, the inlet is J1772-2009.

Then there is optional/available equipment, for extra cost either by itself, part of a higher trim level or a package.

DC fast charging inlet or capability has been optional on BEVs for many years, since Dec 2010. And, it is n/a on numerous BEVs sold during that time. Click on the specs tab of 2013 Nissan LEAF Press Kit. Notice there are S, O or - in the charts?

"S – Standard
O – Optional"

Notice quick charge port (is CHAdeMO) is OPTIONAL for S and SV trims while STANDARD on SL?

Go to https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/brochures/chevrolet/2019-bolt.pdf, go to the tables then exterior. In the 1st column, there is DC fast charging capability with empty circles. Filled black circles = STANDARD aka included. Empty circles = available aka optional. On Bolts where it was optional, '17 to '21, it cost extra money ($750 for '17 to '20, probably that for '21 LT trim).

For '21 Bolt EV per https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/che...evrolet-bolt-ev-changes-updates-new-features/:
"DC fast charging is now standard on 2LT models

• For the 2020 model year, this feature was available for both LT and Premier models, and remains available for 2021 Bolt EV LT models"

IIRC, 2LT is aka Premier trim.

For '22 Bolts, it came standard, regardless of trim level and didn't cost extra. From Chevrolet Grows EV Lineup with 2022 Bolt EUV and Bolt EV "Additionally, standard DC fast public charging capability..." Search the rest of that press release for the word standard.

I don't really get what you are talking about. Only the Asian companies sell cars with Chademo connectors. I know Nissan has said they are dropping the Chademo connector on cars sold in North America. I don't recall the other, but I believe it was Korean. I have no idea why you are mentioning Tesla in this.

For "Nissan has said they are dropping the Chademo connector on cars sold in North America", can you point me to their statement or press release? '23 and '24 Leaf still have CHAdeMO. Yes, I'm aware of Ariya for the US and them more recently saying they're adopting NACS.

Only the Asian companies sell cars with Chademo connectors.

No. e-Golf | ハッチバック | フォルクスワーゲン公式 for Japan came with CHAdeMO. Look under Charging. I saw it myself at Tokyo Motor Show. I'll put up a pic I took later.

BMW i3 for Japan came with CHAdeMO. Search BMW JAPAN : 日本初: 電気自動車 BMW i3 のカーシェアリング・サービスを開始. See BMW i3 Gets CHAdeMO Charged In Japan.

I put up the pic I took of the Japanese market Mercedes EQC with CHAdeMO inlet at Charge plug location consistency?.

For Tesla, they used to sell Tesla Gear Shop — CHAdeMO Adapter for the US until it was quietly dropped. There's even a whole thread at CHAdeMO Charging the Model 3. This guy in Japan got his before it went on sale in the US: Japan. I posted Tokyo Motor Show 2019 - Page 2 - My Nissan Leaf Forum in 2019 when I spoke to a rep at Tesla's booth.

Ok, I don't really care much about the Bolt. I didn't know they treat the two versions as if they were different cars. Whatever. I virtually never read manufacturers' publicity blurbs because they fill them with marking garbage and little real info. Thanks for the update.

They are different cars, just like Model 3 and Y are but both the 3 and Y are pretty closely related (maybe not the best analogy). Bolt EV began sales with model year '17. Bolt EUV began sales in model year '22, with it being longer, having more passenger room, having some features n/a on Bolt EV, etc. And, it was sold alongside refreshed Bolt EV.

 

[Tha_Ape]

So since theft of EVSE is one of your points.

The probability that you forget your J-1772 adapter is significantly larger than the EVSE getting stolen. It's actually a pretty common thing. And arriving at the car late, after a long flight is pretty well guaranteed to make is a probability that you'll forget it.

The whole thing is that if you are wanting parking lots to install free charging, then 120V plugs are the way to go, period.
If you want the classic J-1772/Nacs pedestals are the way to go.

It's probably well over $1000 per outlet difference in installation cost.

And if you make the cost enough where they have to charge for the service, then revenue will probably go to $0. Most cars really don't have to charge while at the airport.

Anecdotally, we tried to have L2 chargers installed at my office building, close to electrical lines, and it was about $18k for 4. It gets cheaper per unit when you add more, but it's not like adding a 120V outlet.

The place we looked at involved removing some sidewalk (like 5ft of it) to run about 20ft of line from the building under it, then rebuilding it. There are also costs for the pedestal install, etc. That all added up. At an airport I imagine that would be quite a project.

I agree that just putting 120V outlets out there for now is a more reasonable and likely solution.

 

[gnuarm]

I've been super busy and dead tired. Will respond to the rest of your reply later.

It is a total waste of time to bother with bringing an L1 120 volt EVSE on a road trip in areas where there is plenty of DC fast chargers and some L2 as backup as long as you have planned and looked at sites on Plugshare.

Ok, if you know the answer, there's no need to ask the question. Thank you for your input.

 

[Genie]

Anecdotally, we tried to have L2 chargers installed at my office building, close to electrical lines, and it was about $18k for 4. It gets cheaper per unit when you add more, but it's not like adding a 120V outlet.

The place we looked at involved removing some sidewalk (like 5ft of it) to run about 20ft of line from the building under it, then rebuilding it. There are also costs for the pedestal install, etc. That all added up. At an airport I imagine that would be quite a project.

I agree that just putting 120V outlets out there for now is a more reasonable and likely solution.

That illustrates there can’t be an ‘average cost’, many won’t need to take up a sidewalk, and others will need to go much further than 20’.

 

[gnuarm]

That illustrates there can’t be an ‘average cost’, many won’t need to take up a sidewalk, and others will need to go much further than 20’.

They don't have sidewalks in the long term parking lot I use. It is all asphalt except for where the bus stops are. They have a concrete curb under the small shelters. So, nothing to get in the way of running wires.

 

[brkaus]

how is your discussion with the airport lot going? What have you suggested to them and what was their response?

 

[gnuarm]

how is your discussion with the airport lot going? What have you suggested to them and what was their response?

I covered that in my first post here.

 

[gnuarm]

Your example was long term parking at airports. Not many people parking in long term for a day

Yes, exactly.