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Pure BEV Dogma
- Thread starter bonnie
- Start date
Good one ... shows where those "for me my volt is an EV because I only ever drive 30miles" a coming from.
Duckjybe
Member
I thought the video was good and clarified many things about the Volt. Even after an informative video like this you still argue it's misleading? Perhaps your objection is all about personal anti-gasoline bias. Prius=hybrid=Volt=MISLEADING
What's misleading is they way the questions are answered:
1. Is it a hybrid ? No, because you can run fully electric mode, no need for gas
2. What is the range ? ~350 miles of total distance
3. What is the MPG ? 95 MPGe
These 3 answers are technically true on their own but put together they imply something drastically untrue.
They should have stated for both the 2nd & 3rd question the EV and the gas range / MPG separately.
1. Is it a hybrid ? No, because you can run fully electric mode, no need for gas
2. What is the range ? ~350 miles of total distance
3. What is the MPG ? 95 MPGe
These 3 answers are technically true on their own but put together they imply something drastically untrue.
They should have stated for both the 2nd & 3rd question the EV and the gas range / MPG separately.
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Definitely misleading for someone who hasn't done their own research and gain their own understanding of these vehicles.
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I'd have even been ok with the separate and combined ranges listed.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I definitely agree with this. It's not misleading if they show the EV and gas part separately, but trying to mix the two obviously is.
And for the first answer, "no" is actually the wrong answer, even though what follows ("can run fully electric mode, no need for gas") is true. This is a classic example of Non sequitur.
Breezy
Member
Nope. Still a plane.
You have to change the design to make it a bus. Anyway, the Volt's a hybrid because it has a two onboard sources of energy for propulsion. Still, it can "act like" an EV much like mine has for the last 500 km as I go about my daily life, and I drive further than 30 miles every day. Sometimes much further.
The Volt's different in design from other plug-in hybrids, as is the REx. It's those design differences that allow it to "act like" an EV, which some other plug-ins can't do. Yes, you can force them to act that way, much like you could use a plane as a bus, with some pretty severe practical limitations, but it's not their intended design.
So, I think that pretty much covers it and this discussion can now come to an end....
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
My objection is and always has been an "anti-misleading terminology" bias. The Volt is a hybrid, that's an indisputable fact. It was designed and built to use two different systems. That was the whole point of it's existence, and what designates it as a hybrid. That does not mean it "=" a Prius, because a Prius is simply one version of a hybrid. The Volt is another version of a hybrid. When the first point in the video is wrong I'd say that it is in fact misleading.
1. Is it a hybrid? Yes, because you can run fully on gas, or on electric for a limited range, or both.
Actually hybrids just need to have two (or more) propulsion systems. They don't even have to be able to "run fully" on electric, or "run fully" on gasoline (or diesel, CNG, E85, H2, etc). (I know you know that JRP3, but for the benefit of others...)
It seems that most people get it when it comes to ICEs. Just because a Corvette ZR-1 is an ICE, that does not make it the same thing as a Geo Metro or a Trabant (or a Rolls-Royce or an Accord or....). But, when it comes to hybrids, most people think Hybrid = Prius, probably because they are not familiar with other hybrids.
Perhaps back in 1900, when all ICE cars looked like a horseless carriage, and had a 1 or 2 cylinder engine in back with a tiller to steer with, most people had the same concept of automobiles all being the same, that they now have of hybrids.
GSP
Duckjybe
Member
No, it's a hybrid.
Problem is toyota calling the prius a hybrid without it being a hybrid at all. Prius is a pure gasser, "plug in prius" is a hybrid.
Problem is toyota calling the prius a hybrid without it being a hybrid at all. Prius is a pure gasser, "plug in prius" is a hybrid.
Exactly! The original (non-plugin) prius should be called Range Extended ICE vehicle
Nope, Prius is merely "a bit more efficient than usual" ICE vehicle. It does some hocus pocus recuperation and nothing more. It just so happens that that hocus pocus contains a battery and electric motor. It could also be made out of air tank containing compressed air or whatever.
"Range Extended" is BS. Every ICE vehicle is already range extended - half of the tank is there to double the range!
There are ICE cars, there are hybrids and there are EVs. Nothing else yet.
"Range Extended" is BS. Every ICE vehicle is already range extended - half of the tank is there to double the range!
There are ICE cars, there are hybrids and there are EVs. Nothing else yet.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Not misleading, since as you say it's a plugin hybrid, which is obviously a subset of hybrid. So it's a hybrid first, with the additional denominator of plugin. So the question can honestly be answered with "Yes, it is a hybrid".
I sort of disagree with Warped about the original Prius, though I see his point. I consider it a hybrid since it can use an electric motor for propulsion as well as the ICE, even if the ultimate energy source is gasoline. If two different types of drive motors are moving the car that would seem to qualify as a hybrid of some kind.
Breezy
Member
The Volt is a type of hybrid, and a type of plug-in hybrid. Those definitions are established by organizations including the SAE.
The question is whether EREV, or REEV, or GREEV, or GREHEV or whatever is a handy way of refering to a vehicle that is technically a "plug-in series or series-parallel hybrid vehicle with traction battery, inverter and motor sized to enable full electric-power performance " I kinda think EREV is better.
Some people believe that EREV is intentionally or unintentionally misleading. I don't believe that, but if someone genuinely does and that belief is held in good faith, not based on some ideological notion of BEV purity or anti-GM sentiment, then I'm okay with that.
The question is whether EREV, or REEV, or GREEV, or GREHEV or whatever is a handy way of refering to a vehicle that is technically a "plug-in series or series-parallel hybrid vehicle with traction battery, inverter and motor sized to enable full electric-power performance " I kinda think EREV is better.
Some people believe that EREV is intentionally or unintentionally misleading. I don't believe that, but if someone genuinely does and that belief is held in good faith, not based on some ideological notion of BEV purity or anti-GM sentiment, then I'm okay with that.
No, calling the Prius a hybrid was absolutely correct, because it is. The confusion starts with the use of hybrid electric vehicle, or HEV, which "weakens" the meaning of EV. Had they called it an electric hybrid vehicle EHV, then you could have a PEHV, and then the i3 REx would be an HEV and we could endlessly argue whether the Volt is a PEHV or an HEV and still argue whether an EV is only a BEV or not.
The Prius is a Hybrid Propulsion Gas Fueled Vehicle: HPGFV
The Volt is an Electric Propulsion Hybrid Fueled Vehicle: EPHFV
The Tesla is an Electric Propulsion Electric Fueled Vehicle: EPEFV
The fool cell cars are Electric Propulsion Hydrogen Fueled Vehicles, oops again EPHFV
yaay, I managed to put the Volt into the same category as the fool cells :tongue:
The Volt is an Electric Propulsion Hybrid Fueled Vehicle: EPHFV
The Tesla is an Electric Propulsion Electric Fueled Vehicle: EPEFV
The fool cell cars are Electric Propulsion Hydrogen Fueled Vehicles, oops again EPHFV
yaay, I managed to put the Volt into the same category as the fool cells :tongue:
Update: I just got my 2nd ever oil change in Indianapolis at 96,000 miles during my first big road trip in several years. The total cost was $43 for the oil, oil filter, 22 point inspection, car wash and carpet vacuuming at Penske Chevrolet. I'm pretty sure that keeps my total service costs over the last 3.75 years to under $100. They said my engine air filter, which is still original, looked fine and didn't need replacing.
I think I'm good to go until my next scheduled service interval at 150,000 miles when the coolant for the engine, inverter, and battery loops will be replaced for the first time.
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