JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I guess Tesla might as well add an ICE and reduce the pack size, since it would still be an EV, no difference. Stop building superchargers too, since "EV's" don't need to be charged if you can just put gasoline in them.
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Pure BEV Dogma
- Thread starter bonnie
- Start date
green1
Active Member
Didn't say I agreed with the policy...
I think it's pretty obvious, if it's got a gas engine it isn't an EV, it's either an ICE or a hybrid. But the manufacturers invented the term extended range electric vehicle specifically for the purpose of causing confusion, and apparently it has worked, you only have to read this very thread to see how many people buy the marketing speak.
I think it's pretty obvious, if it's got a gas engine it isn't an EV, it's either an ICE or a hybrid. But the manufacturers invented the term extended range electric vehicle specifically for the purpose of causing confusion, and apparently it has worked, you only have to read this very thread to see how many people buy the marketing speak.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Sure, but I expect better of the moderators here. I correctly point out that a hybrid is a hybrid, and the post gets moved to the inappropriately named "Dogma" thread?
Car and driver calls the i8 and i3 a series hybrid to distinguish from the volt As a parallel hybrid. Distinction is if one can route power straight from ice to wheels. I think this is most accurate way so far to describe. None are EVs
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I wasn't really arguing, just pointing out a simple mistake. If someone called the Model S an ICE should that not be corrected?
The Volt is a bit more complex and can operate in both series and parallel hybrid modes. Still a hybrid of course.
Since you seem to think this is black and white, I'm curious where you think the line is here.
The Model S as built is obviously an EV, right?
If you put a portable generator in the back to move it to another location, does that make the Model S a hybrid?
What if you bolt the generator in, but never use it to charge the car?
If you use the portable generator to charge the car while parked, does that make it a hybrid?
What if you override the car's code so the generator temporarily placed in the back can charge the car while it is driving?
Walter
In case anyone cares, according to the Society of Automotive Engineers' definition of a hybrid, the last modification is required to make the car a hybrid.
GSP
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
And it's an important point. If you install a generator and hook it up so it can charge the car while driving you have created a series hybrid. If you plug an EV into a generator and charge only while parked, it's still an EV, no matter where the generator is located. Ultimately any EV plugged into the grid is charging from some type of generator, unless it's a 100% solar grid.
The January 12, 2015 edition of Automotive News has an interview of Ian Robertson, a BMW marketing exec, on pages 29-30, including the following question:
Is it correct to call an i3 with a range extender a plug-in hybrid?
"It is not. It is a battery-powered vehicle where only the electric motor powers the wheels." :scared:
This guy is obviously in marketing. If he were an engineer he should be fired for incompetence.
GSP
Is it correct to call an i3 with a range extender a plug-in hybrid?
"It is not. It is a battery-powered vehicle where only the electric motor powers the wheels." :scared:
This guy is obviously in marketing. If he were an engineer he should be fired for incompetence.
GSP
Krugerrand
Meow
Breezy
Member
He is of course technically incorrect.
At the risk of starting this up again, the REx is probably the best example of the clunkiness of the current definitions. Take an EV, add an engine in any form, and you've got plug-in hybrid like a Plug-in Prius. Doesn't seem to me that plug-in hybrid is adequately specific.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
bluenation
Member
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That's exactly what we would call it before the whole "EREV" thing GM invented to muddy the waters (I wonder how history would be different if the Volt remained as a series PHEV and there was no need to invent the "EREV" term). Series PHEV is a clear-cut unambiguous engineering based term.
Amazing. I was away from the forum today but at this very time this topic popped into my head.
- Impasse
- Stalemate
- Standoff
- Deadlock
This thread is well into "extra innings" and I think it is time to declare it a "cat's game".
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Well some more "fuel for the fire":
2014 BMW i3 Range Extender: No White CA Carpool-Lane Sticker, Here's Why
...under California law, the BMW i3 with REx is the first of a new category of plug-in electric cars, known as a BEVx....
... California zero-emission vehicle regulations permit a BEVx to count toward a carmaker's "ZEV gold credits"--effectively, the number of zero-emission vehicles it sells (even though the i3 REx may produce tailpipe emissions in range-extending mode)...
...Under all other regulations, though, the BEVx designation simply doesn't matter. A regular BMW i3 is a fully-electric car, and a BMW i3 REx is deemed a plug-in hybrid for any other incentive program.That puts the range-extended i3 in the same category for California's plug-in purchaserebate and its carpool-lane access as the California-spec Chevrolet Volt, Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid, and other cars that plug in but also have combustion engines...
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