Quality problems; "veteran members" tell us, how significant are they?

[kuttakamina]

I have an early 2013 P85. I have had a few issues. The most extensive was a drive train replacement which they did for the known issue of a low rumbling sound. I also had the door handles, TPMS, and the 12 volt battery replaced. I have driven it across country and to work every day for the past two years.

Bottom line is this: Every car made is likely to have issues at some point. I would much rather deal with the Tesla service center and rangers than any dealer service center I have ever been to. Don't let a fear of issues deprive you of the Tesla grin!

Drive train replacement - that is HUGE for a car that is 2 years old.
But I nod to the sentiment "I would much rather deal with the Tesla service center and rangers than any dealer service center I have ever been to"
.. I hate dealers! Also good for the Planet, good for America, bad for jihadists.

I am getting a Tesla, no doubt about it. But its always good to step into the party knowing where the ugly chicks are.

 

[Canuck]

But its always good to step into the party knowing where the ugly chicks are.

Are you 12 years old? That's such a juvenile and offensive statement.

 

[hcoon2000]

I am an early adopter I think my vin is 1649. My Texla was delivered via UPS in January 2013. A Texla is similar to a unicorn. The Great State DOES want the tax revenue just not the political headache associated with the Texas Automobile Dealers Association, TADA. The bureaucrats in Austin pretend Tesla doesn't exist, its a unicorn. Getting my tag took four months because I could not find a shop willing to do the required inspection prior to getting a license plate back in January 2013. That was the biggest problem I had and it clearly was not an issue Tesla could resolve.

I have had a few problems but every one was quickly resolved at no additional expense to me other than the time required by the shop to update firmware or replace a component.

My interior lights were replaced after a valet punched his finger through the driver side light. My floor mats were replaced twice. At the 26,500 mile mark I finally got the dreaded 12 volt subsystem problem. I was leaving town the next day. Tesla support had my car towed, repaired the battery, washed my car and had it back in my garage by the time I got home from my trip. They offered me a loaner, but I didn't see the point of leaving a loaner at the airport.

I purchased the 8 year warranty with service. I have never regretted the decision. This is the best car I have ever owned. I hope the company does well. I never want to go back to the poor quality cars I drove from other manufacturers. I never want to experience the lack of true concern for the customer the other companies have demonstrated by using the middleman dealer model.

I would liken it to healthcare. Would you rather have a long term relationship with a doctor who is concerned for your welfare or an insurance company that tells you the problem with your heart (check engine light) does not have a code in the universally accepted book of codes the middlemen both concocted and share?

Any time something new disrupts a comfortable economic model ( read crony ) there is inherent risk. No risk, no reward. The Tesla experience is truly rewarding. I recommend it to anyone that wants to enjoy driving every day.

 

[kuttakamina]

Are you 12 years old? That's such a juvenile and offensive statement.

11 and a half!!

 

[JPP]

I guess you need to decide if the problems are 'major' and also how much you are inconvenienced. I too have had the drive unit replaced for the subtle clunk. I had the instrument cluster replaced for a noisy cooling fan. I had a loss of refrigerant sue to a loose compression fitting in the AC loop. Never stuck at the side of the road, always excellent service, always a loaner better than my car (...let's not dwell on he P85D loaner...). I happily enjoy the potentially less reliable car with stellar service versus the potentially more reliable car with suboptimal service. YMMV.

 

[David99]

I got mine in March 2014. Drove 47k miles on it so far (that's a lot). I drive mostly in California and Arizona and Nevada heat. I drive many road trips on Superchargers, some all the way from Los Angeles to Minneapolis and back. I drive about 50-150 miles daily.

- Reliability is perfect for me. Never had any issues that prevented me from driving. Nothing. The car charges every time and drives every time and it performs every time. 100% for me so far.

- Supercharger reliability was also 100% on all trips and in all types of weather. That's a very important aspect of the car.

- small quality issues: Yes some small ones here and there. Everything was cosmetic, though. No issues that needed immediate attention. Almost all issues were fixed for free by the service.

- They did take care of some noise from the drive unit a few times. Again it's just cosmetic, but nevertheless it is covered by the 8 year warranty.

Overall, the car has turned out to be perfectly reliable, very safe in some close call situations. The generous seat and cargo space has been extremely useful for my business and road trips. I did not buy this car to save money. There are less expensive alternatives. Nevertheless it turns out to be pretty cost effective compared to other cars in it's class. Don't get hung up on what appears to be discussed here about quality issues. The Model S is a very good quality car. It is not a perfect car. No car is perfect. Overall it is the best car I have ever driven. I would definitely buy it again as it is. What can't be explained is how much more fun, satisfying, calming, enjoying it is to drive. I really love driving the Model S every day, which I can't say about any other car.

 

[fluxemag]

Here's my input, based on experience from today. My car is two years old as of yesterday, with 26k miles on it. I have had various rattles fixed by the service center, along with some proactive changes that they made. I had the 12V battery replaced after the car gave me advanced warning. My glove box didn't always open. But really nothing major. Each and every time my car was picked up by service, a loaner was dropped off for me to use, and the car was returned to me clean.

So today I dropped my wife off at the airport, and thought I'd take her car into the Lexus dealer to get serviced. It's a 2012 that has been very reliable. But it too had some noises to be addressed by service when it was new. And now it needs an oil change and the PRNDL shifter no longer goes into neutral. The shifter is electric and can't select N reliably anymore. So here's the difference. I have to drive it down to the dealer across town and wait two hours in the lobby, or wait for a shuttle to take me home, and then back to the dealer (which will probably take 4 hours). And they can't fit me in for at least a week.

I don't care if Tesla has my car once a month, because their service is just plain superior.

 

[chriSharek]

As a new owner, I will share my perspective. The two biggest "things" I see about the Model S and Tesla Motors are:
1 - What some people complain is a lack of thorough evaluation of design decisions and quality control. I am an Engineer by trade and I spend much of my time on problem determination calls and root cause analysis. For us, we often discuss on ways things could be caught earlier and improved in the future. Now, in Tesla's case, most issues people complain about are, IMO, unreasonable for Tesla to catch every time at the factory. For instance, a misaligned pano roof seal. As long as this is not a systemic problem, I don't think any factory should be opening/closing every single sunroof and water testing and air tunnel testing every single sunroof to ensure a perfect seal. Have the process in place to ensure 90%+ of them are in good shape and the Service Centers can address the few that slip through. Design Decisions are a different concern, like the current thread about the center console. There, this leads mostly into #2.

2 - Tesla Motors, as a whole, has a communications clarity/transparity problem. Most of the angst people experience could easily be avoided by more proactive and/or more detailed communications. Take, for example, when the first cars with Next Gen seats were delivered. People found out at delivery that the next gen seats are a due bill item and they will get them later. Not a big deal and getting the car now vs. waiting on seat supply was the right decision. That said, customers probably would have felt much better if they were told prior to showing up for delivery that the seats were backordered and would be a due bill item in an effort to get the car to the customer faster. There are other examples on these forums, but essentially, they boil down to the customer could have had an improved experience if they simply got better communications.

In the end, I do NOT regret my decision of a Tesla in any way, I still love the company, and I would not hesitate to go through the process again. That doesn't mean I would not appreciate if Tesla did better on certain things.

Cyclone, I knew we had some other connection. I'm an environmental engineer. We obviously have similar values and appreciations.

 

[brianman]

I would liken it to healthcare. Would you rather have a long term relationship with a doctor who is concerned for your welfare or an insurance company that tells you the problem with your heart (check engine light) does not have a code in the universally accepted book of codes the middlemen both concocted and share?

Well put.

 

[brucet999]

Cyclone and ChriSharek, it's interesting that you mention your being engineers. As I asked questions of the guys at the Tesla store, they asked if I were an engineer. They both agreed that a lot of Tesla enthusiasts and buyers are engineers. Makes sense, I suppose, that Tesla would appeal to engineering types.

 

[theheff]

I'd go new if it's at all possible. I think the 70D is a great value right now. I almost always buy something lightly used and still under warranty, but the tax credits available for a Tesla ($13.5k total living in Colorado) really help with the immediate depreciation. My 2013 P85 is still the best car I've ever owned, but the build quality of the newer Model S cars is so much better. Test-driving a P85D recently was pretty eye-opening. I've had all the issues that the other early owners have had - drive unit replaced, battery replaced, pano roof creaking issues, door handle replaced, window motor replaced, etc. These issues are no big deal to me now since the car is under warranty, but some of the non-drivetrain issues might really cost me when i cross 50k miles in the next year. All that being said, the service has been outstanding and my issues have been completely addressed. I think Elon Musk was quoted saying that Tesla updates ~20 parts per week on the Model S. That's a thousand changes every year, and those improvements have a huge impact on the reliability, build quality, and longevity of the car over its life.

I bought my 2013 P85 used a year ago in May 2014. I saved some serious coin, but it's amazing how quickly new features have come out. If I could do it again, I would have definitely waited and gotten the 85D instead. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla releases a larger capacity battery back and/or more efficient version of the 85 sometime before the holidays. My point is that by buying used, you're already buying something obsolete. Being under warranty still, this might be perfectly fine to you. If autopilot and dual-wheel drive aren't as important to you, I'd stick to something 2014 or newer.

Just my $.02!

 

[ToddRLockwood]

I have not read through all these posts, but here's something worth considering... Even if your Model S has a few minor issues during it's first couple of years, you've already saved a lot of time and hassle by not having to take your car in for oil changes and other routine maintenance found on gasoline cars. For me, that's a big advantage. The majority of work done on my Model S was performed in my own garage by Tesla's ranger mechanics. I should also add that in 36K miles, there has never been a problem serious enough to keep me from driving the car.

 

[Btrflyl8e]

I've had a couple of very minor issues, but here's the deal... I just never worry about it. Because I know how outstanding Tesla service is, if something happened I just have confidence that they'll make it right and I won't be inconvenienced. THAT is a big difference from every other car I've ever owned.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

DO IT! YOU WON'T REGRET IT!

I have an August 2013 build. Most of my issues came early. The car had some air bubbles in the alcantara, developed a "tea kettle" noise in the front of the pano roof, and a piece of my trunk liner fell down. Car initially shipped with the wrong tires, but this was also during a switchover from Goodyears to Michelins on the 19" wheels. Tesla Service took care of everything to my satisfaction. I have had 3 drive unit replacements, all for noise issues. The last replacement was in January, and with a brand new unit from the factory.

I experienced little to no inconvenience for my issues. As an apology over the initial quality problems, Tesla gave me free 2nd-gen fog lights. Every time I had a drive unit replaced, I received a Model S loaner. I couldn't have asked to be treated any better. I feel like royalty when I take my car for service. I am very hopeful that the drive unit issue has been solved (knock wood), other than that I don't think I've had any issues in the last year.

 

[Max*]

Cyclone and ChriSharek, it's interesting that you mention your being engineers. As I asked questions of the guys at the Tesla store, they asked if I were an engineer. They both agreed that a lot of Tesla enthusiasts and buyers are engineers. Makes sense, I suppose, that Tesla would appeal to engineering types.

One more engineer.

 

[Todd Burch]

Background: I am a mechanical engineer and I work for a dimensional metrology software company (now more involved on the software side than the mechanical side). (Metrology is the science of precision dimensional measurement. When Elon said in an interview about a year ago that he wanted the panels to be super-tight, to the thousandth of an inch, he was referring to the results that come from metrological inspection in the factory). What do our customers do? Precision inspections for quality--gap and flush in automotive plants, precision robotic positioning, etc. In fact, Tesla has some of the equipment from my company's parent company in their factory.

I had a 2012 S85 (P1653) and now have a recent car (Oct 2014 P85-- P55228).

The early car had some issues as expected. Tesla was nothing but outstanding in correcting them. Once those issues were fixed (in the first few thousand miles), I had zero issues from that point on. Build quality on the initial cars, as far as fit and finish is concerned, was below average.

My more recent car, now at 13,000+ miles, has had zero issues. Door handles have worked flawlessly. Drivetrain has been 100% reliable (despite having a common but (I'm told) harmless, barely audible buzz between 0-20 kW of power output). I haven't had it serviced at all yet. And--uh oh---I forgot to change the oil--oh...right. I would put fit and finish on the recent cars as "average" to "slightly above average" overall. Interior fit and finish is above average, and body panel gap and flush is about average to just slightly below average. My car has some misalignment on the chrome trim on one side, which I think can be corrected when I finally take my car in for its annual service. Gaps are a little on the big side, so they have some ways to go there.

My service experience with Tesla has been phenomenal. Early on, Nathan and the crew in Rockville, MD--and more recently with Gwenen and crew in Charlotte, NC has been flawless. However, be aware that this seems to be very location-specific. Areas that tend to be busy (such as California) seem to have had more service complaints simply because of the higher density of owners.

So I would put reliability at many, many times better than the early cars. And, I think the major issues with those early cars have since been remedied.

You're probably not going to get the reliability of a Toyota Corolla--Tesla's not there yet. You're not going to get the body panel gap and flush of a Lexus. Tesla's not there yet. But I'd say it's good now, and getting better every day. And this drivetrain technology has the potential to be far *more* reliable and to last far *longer* than an ICE. There are already several early Model S cars with over 100,000 miles on the ODO with no significant drivetrain issues! (I know personally of one who must be coming up on 130,000 miles any day now).

One thing about reliability with these electronic components: In general they have a much higher tendency to fail early in their service life (like the Consumer Reports door handle). Once you get over that hump, you usually have good reliabilty for quite a while, until things age considerably.

Also: forums tend to amplify the apparent frequency of issues as well. There are more "this broke, that broke" comments than "everything's fine" comments, for obvious reasons.

Get off that fence and make the purchase. You won't regret it.

 

[bonnie]

But its always good to step into the party knowing where the ugly chicks are.

And it's always good to get a feel for what kind of person my fellow forum members are ... thanks for the data point.

- - - Updated - - -

So, Veteran owners, what do you say to us on-the-fencers?

Thanks

So as you've undoubtedly noticed, even though you asked for the opinion of veteran owners, you also received opinions from people who don't even own a Tesla.

I've owned a Roadster for approx 4.5 years & am in line for a Model X. There are a number of owners here on the forum who started with just wanting one Tesla & now have multiple Teslas and/or reservations for future models. THAT should tell you what we truly think of the car and the company.

I never planned to go 'all in' on EVs. But once my Model X is delivered, the Jeep will go & I'll be 100% EV / 100% Tesla. And not a single worry about that decision, based on over 4 years of dealing with the company and their products.

 

[ecarfan]

My S85 is a Dec 2013 build. 21K miles now. No serious issues, has always run, never failed. Driver display replaced proactively by Tesla, I had no problem with it. Tesla came to my house and replaced my HPWC cable because it failed. Also came to my house and replaced the 12V battery after a year because the car said it was not taking a full charge. Some other very minor issues with the car that were fixed by Tesla under warranty. Have had only one of the "annual maintenance" services so far.

The car is bloody brilliant! And the service is excellent. Loved it so much that last October I sold my Porsche and bought a Roadster. I have not driven an ICE vehicle since and hope to never drive one again. They seriously suck.

 

[AnOutsider]

I have not read through all these posts, but here's something worth considering... Even if your Model S has a few minor issues during it's first couple of years, you've already saved a lot of time and hassle by not having to take your car in for oil changes and other routine maintenance found on gasoline cars. For me, that's a big advantage. The majority of work done on my Model S was performed in my own garage by Tesla's ranger mechanics. I should also add that in 36K miles, there has never been a problem serious enough to keep me from driving the car.

Sorry, I can't agree with this. Our ICE cars go in for regular service at intervals that are a little more than a year or so of driving. All the oil changing and such is done at those times. It's also included in the ~$500 plan we purchased when we got the cars.

In contrast, my Model S has been in for service more times than any of our other cars. Service is covered, but the yearly inspection (used to be mandatory) costs more for a SINGLE VISIT than we paid to have our ICE cars covered for 50k miles of service.

So to recap: in more, costs more. I just couldn't see myself selling a potential buyer on any time or cost savings in that department.

To the OP: the 70D seems like a bargain, and the newer Model S's seem to be better-built than the ones in the past. Though mine has been in often, I don't regret buying the vehicle at all. If there were alternatives, then I'd recommend shopping a bit, but if you're looking for an EV with practical range, then this is it, and I'd recommend going for it.

 

[dsm363]

11 and a half!!

Smiley face doesn't make it any better.

- - - Updated - - -
To the OP:
Sept. 2012 model with basically no issues. Some minor things like many of the cars but service has been excellent.