TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Question for Porsche owners - is the P85D really the same drive or better?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by TheLex, Dec 22, 2014.

  1. TheLex

    TheLex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    NorCal
    We need a new car. We have the van for the family (we have triplets). But my Mini Cooper JCW has been deemed unsafe by my wife. So she wants me to get a Tesla. Naturally I want the P85D. But it doesn't have ventilated seats, heated steering wheel (in our area), or blind spot indicators - all features that would be useful for a DD in our area where it gets down to 25F in the winters and 115F in the long hot summer. Since this is to be my DD along a 25-30 min country road commute, I want something that's at least kind of fun.

    I've always wanted a Porsche 911. I spent a lot of time driving a mid-80's Carrera and I miss the directness of a sports car. I'm rather doubtful that any sedan can replicate the direct feel of a sports car. Plus I find the widebody 911's to be oh so sexy.
    My feeling is that I could find a 997.2 widebody (GTS or C4S) and drive that until the next round of upgrades to the Model S when they finally release the features I want. I could also get a 991 C4S but that's an extra 50K or so that I could use towards the Model S.

    So if you've got a late model 911, please comment on the differences between that and a Model S. I know some will say the Model S is quieter. I expect that in a sedan, and frankly I prefer a loud snorty exhaust in a sports car. I like the road feel, the directness, the connectedness, and sports car feel of the 911's. Can a Model S come close to delivering that kind of experience to this motorhead?
     
  2. Runarbt

    Runarbt Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    Drammen, Norway
    The model s do have heated steering wheel and blind spot detection.
     
  3. GSP

    GSP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,002
    I am not a Porsche owner, but it may be helpful to know that heated steering wheel is rumored to be included in the cold weather package starting with production sometime in January.

    Also, the very low center of gravity and sport-oriented suspension design of the Model S will complement the instant acceleration (comparable to a McLaren F1) very nicely. For the best road feel, I recommend steel springs, not air.

    There are many Porsche owners here at TMC that are even more satisfied with their Model S.

    GSP

    PS. Here is a link to a good review of the suspension design:

    2012 Tesla Model S Signature Performance Suspension Walkaround
     
  4. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I own as S85 and have driven a 911 Turbo. The Porsche will handle better and that is the only place it will win. Everybody thinks they like engine noise until they don't have it...then they realize they just convinced themselves they like because there was basically no choice.

    The main thing I would say to you as a sports car guy is that in a Tesla the power is just so much more accessible, not in the RPM sense, but in the useability sense. The power is right there, so drama free and so easy. You'll already be off the accelerator of your Tesla while your still shifting a 911. If you want fun on a day-to-day basis the Tesla will easily win I assure you. It will also will in so many other ways (fuel, space, comfort, maintenance, environment).

    The wide body 911 did look great to me, but honestly a down side of the Model S is that it makes other cars seem lame....cars that I used to really like.
     
  5. cjchome

    cjchome Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Toronto
    i drive an early VIN# P85 and love it. my wife drives a 2012 911, so i occasionally drive that car as well. i think you are right to be skeptical about a sedan the size of the S replicating the feel of a sports car. the 911 handles turns and corners much better and also provides much more of that "connectedness" that you mention. i do think there is a fairly big difference in the driving experience between the two. i prefer to drive my S, but my wife definitely prefers the 911. perhaps the new P85D will be a closer match in handling, but given the qualities you say you are looking for, you should definitely do some test driving to compare.
     
  6. roblab

    roblab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,038
    Location:
    Angwin (Napa Valley) CA
    Sounds like you need to drive a Tesla and see for yourself. You don't need to drive the P85D to feel the control and instant silent acceleration.
     
  7. 403portside

    403portside Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    226
    Location:
    San Francisco, California, United States
    I bought my P85+ in November of 2013 and also owned a 997 C2S at the same time. Long story short, you cannot come close to the connectedness of the 911 with a Tesla but at some point it really didn't matter to me. The instantaneous power and torque was the new benchmark and every time I drove my 911 it just felt antiquated. After about 4-5 months mainly collecting dust, I sold the 911.

    More recently, I felt like I started to miss the 911. So a few months ago I went to the Porsche dealer to look at a 991 C4S to see if I could get re-inspired to add one back to the garage. Where I netted out was that I lust after the look and small feel of the car, the rear engine bias, the sound and heritage, but the power train just doesn't feel nearly as significant as it did to me a few years ago. It's like I've been ruined by the Tesla for anything other than the tesla. The porsche felt lethargic in comparison.

    And by the way, I'm a Porsche guy for whom the 911 was the ultimate dream car. I've wanted one since I was 3, bought one 30 yrs later, and still 'want' to like one enough to buy another one, but I'm not sure how much I would drive it if I did.

    Hope that helps a little.
     
  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,593
    Location:
    Nixa, Missouri, United States
    I think that once you have the Tesla, with the option of using it not only as your personal DD, but also as your family errand vehicle with the triplets (get the optional jump seat) you're going to be darn glad you did. I agree with the others that this is not going to give you that sensation of sitting with your ass 6" off the road connectedness, but it will still give you performance for straight line and out of curve acceleration that is just hard to describe until you feel it. And to be able to do that with your whole family loaded in the vehicle is just something you have to experience to believe.

    Think of the children!
     
  9. skilly

    skilly Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    438
    Location:
    Livermore CA
    I am a proud owner of both.

    My 911 is a 991 TT and frankly the two cant be compared. They are both incredible cars serving two different purposes. One is the best a 4 dr can be with incredible driving dynamics and top end technology - the very best in its all electric class and being compared to hallmark brands today such as Porsche (Panamara) and Mercedes (S550). The other is single handedly the smartest most capable 'super car' offered in the market today. The new 911 TT is faster and more capable than the Ferrari 458 and Lamborghini Adventador. Moverover, its more eco friendly; has more creature comforts than most exotics; and can stand in as a daily driver...consider in your first 10,000 miles driven the service is 350.00 for an oil change.

    To try and compare them as one or the other wouldnt be fair to either. Instead, you should consult your local contractor and consider adding space in your garage. The reality is that if go with either, it will be very difficult to part ways with one for the other. 15141619168_33c99205eb_o.jpg
     
  10. randompersonx

    randompersonx Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    493
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    I've owned a Panamera 4S, currently a 997 Turbo.

    I test drove a P85+ and ordered a P85D.

    Tesla P85+ (and likely the D as well) is a great Panamera replacement, but it is not a 911. Nothing is a 911. If you are looking for something to carve the twisties, your best options today are probably either the 911 or a Cayman S.
     
  11. Dwdnjck

    Dwdnjck Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    226
    Location:
    Rancho Santa Fe
    I would recommend the porsche because your wife will want to drive only the model S and you will be driving the van. Personally, if have been looking for a 911 with a broken motor to convert to electric, because it could be better than a gas one.
     
  12. richkae

    richkae VIN587

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,917
    Get rid of the van and the Mini.
    Get a Model S and a 911.
     
  13. donv

    donv Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    573
    Location:
    Lake Jeanclia, OR
    I agree with this, actually.

    I have an S85 and a 2014 Cayman S, so maybe the budget version of this concept, and it's a great combination. The Tesla is fun to drive, and a tremendous daily driver, but on a country road there is no comparison with a Porsche sports car.

    One big advantage of the Tesla as a daily driver, given your situation, is that you can preheat or precool the cabin. If you have covered parking at your work, that may not be an issue, but if you park in an open lot, that might make a difference.

    But from a country road perspective, the Porsche takes it.

     
  14. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,007
    Location:
    Grimsby, Canada
    Get rid of all ICE vehicles...
     
  15. JST

    JST Active Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,508
    Not a whole lot more to add. The Model S is a very satisfying car to drive, but it is satisfying in an entirely different way from the Porsche. I have a 987, not a 911, but going from the Tesla to the Porsche I am always blown away by just how small and nimble the Porsche feels. The steering feel is in another universe, as well, and as much as I appreciate regen braking, I miss heel and toeing.

    That said, on the average day, when it isn't top down weather and I am facing city traffic? The Tesla is the car that I take. It's so...effortless. Yes it's big, yes it's heavy, no it can't match the Porsche in terms of feel, but it is a profoundly satisfying car to drive in its own right.

    Were I you? Get an S85 or a used P85. With the money left over, buy a Boxster Spyder for those days when all you want to do is drive from Point A to Point A.
     
  16. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,737
    Location:
    Smithfield, VA
    I'd take a test drive in a P85D first. Relatively few folks on here have driven it at this point, and many have said it handles better than the P85+. Drive it, see if you like it. No way any of our answers can beat that.
     
  17. augkuo

    augkuo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    549
    Location:
    Berkeley
    Moving from a Mini to a Model S is a big step - I think you'll feel a bit disconnected in a such a big car. The 911 wins for your kind of driving (I think I know the roads you're driving on) and your wife will definitely want the Model S instead of the Minivan ;)
    You could also consider a Cayman instead of a 911 since that would be closer to your Mini Cooper.


     
  18. Karma

    Karma Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    Safety Harbor, Florida
    7 years ago I purchased new a 997 C2S Cabriolet (triple black). Awesome car. Dream car. Had wanted one since before I could drive. 3 years later I sold it to a dealer in Canada (I'm in Florida), after watching it depreciated about $20,000/year, and finding that as a daily driver, it really wasn't much fun. Responsive? Yes! Throaty exhaust? Yes!! Uncomfortable with no room and a ton of heat coming off the rear flat-6 about 2 feet behind me? No doubt about it. I felt every bump in the road and road trips were simply miserable.

    Two years ago I started to seriously look into the Model S, but the range was an issue as we take regular trips from the Tampa area to visit family on the MS gulf shore. With the SC network coming into place at breathtaking speed, my wife and I decided it was time to test drive the Model S. I'm a bit conservative of a driver, but loved the car. She, on the other hand, drove the heck out of it, on wet, leaf-covered roads. When we got out, she told me that it was the safest car that she'd ever driven, and that she liked it more than the Porsche. The decision was made.

    We've had our Model S for 10 days now, and completed our first 200 mile round trip (without charging!) to Epcot and back on Saturday, with 5 adults in the car.

    Having owned both, I can tell you that for my personal use and as a daily driver, I would never again consider the P-car. Between the lack of comfort, the inability to have passengers (other than my wife), the ungodly depreciation (maybe less accelerated now that the economy is better), a 911 would simply not make the discussion. However, if you're looking for a fun car to impress the girls, and burn through some michelins and p-zero's at the track, get the p-car. YOLO, right?
     
  19. JST

    JST Active Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,508
    I'm not sure depreciation is going to be any better on the Model S than the Porsche.

    Anyway, there are so many low mile Porsches out there that the best thing to do is to buy one used. I'm not sure exactly what mine is worth, but when I bought it it was 2 years old and the first owner *definitely* took a much bigger depreciation hit than I have in the 5 years since.
     
  20. TheLex

    TheLex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    NorCal
    Wow, thank you so very much for all the thoughtful responses! Obviously everyone has a bit of a different opinion. A little more background - I drive the Odyssey because it's a necessity with triplet 3 year olds and in-laws in tow. No Model S/S-Class/Panamera will hold all those people. So we're stuck with the mini-van unless Tesla comes out with one (Model X long wheel base?).

    I drive like a grandmother when all the kids are in the car although I do tend to be about 10 mph over the speed limit in the 2nd lane over from the median. But when I'm on my own I've been know to take a curve or two and an onramp or three at a wee bit more speed :)

    We've only got a 2 car garage and one space is already occupied by a mint condition MBZ SL500 R129 with only 17k mi. It was my late father's and I can't bring myself to part with it. So that means I can only have one more inside parking space. If I get a Tesla I'm likely to lease it because I can write it off through my business. As the boys get older maybe the wife can put car seats in there for the kids.

    But for schlepping back and forth to work I want something fun and something sexy. I work really hard and I want something that stirs my juices when I see the car at the end of the day. A widebody Porsche does that. I'm not so sure a P85D even with HRE's would do that.

    If I do end up with a P car, I'd probably get the S85D for the better range and the cost savings. I'd also wait until they make the Next Gen seats available and hopefully with ventilation.

    We're remodeling the house right now and building a new outside garage (we're turning the old garage into a home theater). I've already had the electrical panel uprated to 400 amps, and we have solar on the roof. So I'm all set when the time comes for the Tesla.

    Right now I'm leaning towards getting a used widebody 997. I don't want to throw a bunch of money away on depreciation and a used 997 S/C4S/GTS has already taken a lot of depreciation. I'll probably thrown an obnoxious wing on it as well lol.

    I will make time to test drive the Model S finally though so I know what that feels like.

    BTW, I read a post on one of the Porsche forums that was very poignant. P car owners are big enthusiasts. And the online forums and cars and coffee experience is part of the ownership with very supportive people. I'm seeing that with the Tesla owners as well. It makes having a nice car more than just having a nice car. You get to meet some great people either virtually or in person!
     

Share This Page