Raw images are not photon counts. It's just the data directly from the sensor cells which are proportional to the amount of light hitting them, but that's certainly not photon counts. Why they ever used processed images escapes me. Most experienced people don't even use them when editing photos.
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Radar getting turned off on Model 3/Y with 2022.20.9
- Thread starter Tha_Ape
- Start date
How well does Tesla Vision work on AP HW 2.5? I’ve been searching around for an answer to this but I haven’t found anything.
I'm not sure if even runs on HW 2.5. Just like 2.5 doesn't get the vision based seat belt pretension feature in an accident.
So the radar will remain active on my HW 2.5 vehicle and it won’t transition to Tesla Vision after the next software update?
2020.20.9 is ready to be installed on my 2019 M3. I use AP *all the time*. I have 65K miles on the car, and the vast majority has been AP. I drive lots of highways in and around Massachusetts, daily. AP is life changing for me. I feel relatively rested even after 2 hour drives, which is incredible. Before I had the M3, after a drive like that, my back would hurt, and I'd feel stiff from clutching the wheel and on the pedals for so long. The idea of jeopardizing this current experience is incredibly troublesome. I'm really hesitant to install this software...BUT...do I really have a choice? I mean, am I going to never install another update?
Seriously: do I have a choice?
Thinking I should just click the update button now and see how it goes. Decisions.....
Seriously: do I have a choice?
Thinking I should just click the update button now and see how it goes. Decisions.....
That is my guess.
According to your warranty you don't have a choice. It would be really interesting to see how you feel about it after a couple weeks of use.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
There’s a hardware trick to this.Resistance is futile
Even if you cancel the install every time you start the car, at some point it will install itself of the SC will install it when you visit them.
I think he's referring to the old trick of taping a picture of Elon Musk to the cabin camera. This is also supposed to enable RoboTaxi mode as well. But that was delayed. Legend has it that will work in about two weeks.
The photo you process is created by processing raw data from photons striking the camera sensors. Words can have different meanings in context. Before you criticize Tesla's use of "photons", do a deep dive into their programming. I guess you can't because they won't share proprietary details. They have only summarized what they are doing in public releases. In one of those releases, they did show the difference between the output from raw camera images and their photon processing directly to vector space in low visibility. it was pretty remarkable.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Something about unplugging something like a seat module to prevent updates.
Just read a long Reddit thread about vision vs. radar. Along with this thread, the clear consensus is that Vision is not as good as radar builds. Having the radar removal forced on me is freaking me out. My M3 is **great** right now on 2022.20.8. I use AP **all the time!!** I don't want to chance things with Vision. Can someone tell me what the best way is to avoid updating to 2022.20.9 even though the app and car keep offering it? I know I will have to update eventually, but I can't handle this change right now. My busiest travel/work season is right now, through late-october. I need my car to be stable! Any advice would be appreciated.
Reinventing the wheel is not something to be proud of, especially when coupled with clear misuse of terminology.
Raw image processing is foundational for pretty much any kind of image recognition. It is surprising that Tesla was not doing that from the beginning. Calling it “photon counting” (btw: I could not find Tesla official reference to that) is taking the amateurism to the next level. As mentioned above that is a very well defined concept in quantum physics. To be able to count individual photons you need a very, very specialized equipment and, frankly, for the purpose of autonomous driving does not make any sense.
Since 2022.20.9 came out I spent many hours researching the subject which increased my knowledge but I also have a life. The car for me is a tool and it is ridiculous to have to do a research every time when Tesla decided to drastically change something that I own.
Unfortunately, I see the same tail tales as with the comical V11 efforts: Ignoring significant body of knowledge on the matter, coming up with weird arguments, coming from unfounded “We know best” position, etc.
There is no evidence that radarless car performs better: It has a lower speed limit, it has longer following distance, it needs additional help (high beams, wipers), etc. Additionally, no one outside of Tesla is either convinced or pursuing vision only autonomous driving, let alone adaptive cruise control. I challenge you to find an independent study on the matter that concludes that camera only is, at least, equivalent to combined sensor array.
All points to:
- Tesla had challenge obtaining the radar modules due to the global chip supply issues. They decided to remove the chip, save cost and accelerate the Tesla Vision (interestingly, Tesla filed for FCC approval for their own radar module this year)
- As another cost saving measure they want to maintain a single code base (naturally); thus, removing the radar support.
All this “photon counting”, camera only is better than combined sensors, etc. is a marketing BS.
Maybe removing any saved wifi networks from the car would stop the car from downloading updates? I'm pretty sure, but not a 100% positive that the updates are only downloaded over wifi. Also, turning off the wifi is not sufficient due to it restarting next time you drive.
But that will disable all network access. You can use your phone for music streaming; however, no traffic info and no theater.
Additionally, there is a chance that SC will update when you visit them.
At some point the car will download the update over LTE. The clock will turn from yellow to black and the next morning you will experience the “greatness” of camera only adaptive cruise control.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
I second this. The difference between the amount of cut-ins you get is huge. 1 is enough to discourage most people from cutting in.
We can argue all day over PB, but objectively, the radar cars are simply more capable. They're able to go faster on AP and follow closer.
Just for the sake of argument, isn’t it possible that despite a slightly slower top speed limit, and a slightly less close follow distance, disabling radar is safer, and provides a smoother ride? These things are not necessarily constrained by each other. The car could be far more capable in some respects, but not able to go quite as fast and follow as close, as a trade-off. I personally would be happy with that trade-off as I never go faster than 75, and never follow closer than a three. (And I’m on some pretty mean interstates in and around Boston. I just don’t feel safe following so close and going so fast on auto pilot.)
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