Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[Bouba]

Indeed, the price charged for a wallbox is quite scandalous, at least in France. I suppose that's because of all the government or car supplier subsidies - a bit like solar panels. I don't know about used connectors. I bought my wallbox in 2020 off amazon.fr. As far as I could tell it was the cheapest and simplest (just a box, no attached cable). I have a separate 6 M cable. Amazon.fr says not available but it's still available on the supplier's UK website @£300 inc VAT. I paid €330 inc VAT. My electrician installed it and it's worked really well since then without problems - though not used every day. It gives me 6.2 kVA Some risk ordering from the UK maybe?

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The QUBEV is the UK's lowest cost fully featured universal EV / Electric vehicle charging unit. With a built in Amp selector by default you can install this unit on any power supply and match your units output accordingly. This unit is capable of charging any car provided you have the correct...

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If I find anything else I'll let you know (maybe other forum users can comment?).

Well good news (I hope) I got a Generation 2 charger off eBay for €235 including shipping....it’s a private seller but genuine Tesla unused in the case...so hoping that this is what they say it is

 

[KenC]

Keeping M3 at a low SoC (30-40-50%) has been discussed as a means of limiting calendar aging when the vehicle is parked/stored unused. What about the Tesla recommendation, a happy Tesla is a plugged in Tesla, during that storage? Does anybody think that makes a difference if the car is stored at low SoC but plugged in?

Doing both seems to work for me. I keep my 3 plugged in all the time, and my target SOC is 60%, and I've still got 310miles of estimated range, which is what it came with.

My Stats battery range estimate is in my avatar. It still shows 310miles at over 32k miles and 3.5yrs.

 

[jackmott]

Those responses are all fine and well, but explain this to me:
Why does Telsa give a range of 315 miles, if it is absolutely impossible to achieve this, unless you enter and win a hypermiling contest?

What is the point of deliberately disappointing the customer after the sale is made? A driving style to achieve a 315 mile dream range would not be tolerated by 99% of customers (steady 45mph without acceleration, HVAC off, special tires, other reasonable amenities denied).

Why can Porsche achieve its claimed range in the real world, and Tesla continues to play games?

Such a wonderful car with so much innovation and pleasurable driving experience pissing away customer goodwill with deliberate misinformation...
Trusting the promise a manufacturer makes matters.

The EPA test exists and must be advertised, and it is a combination of city and highway mileage, so it over estimates. Cars with bad city mileage don't get overestimated. It is dumb that the EPA test is this way instead of breaking out separate city and highway range. And Tesla should also advertise their own highway range number, imho. But I can see why they don't when they have to advertise a better looking number anyway.

 

[Steve446]

The EPA test exists and must be advertised, and it is a combination of city and highway mileage, so it over estimates. Cars with bad city mileage don't get overestimated. It is dumb that the EPA test is this way instead of breaking out separate city and highway range. And Tesla should also advertise their own highway range number, imho. But I can see why they don't when they have to advertise a better looking number anyway.

I don't understand. I am quoted in your post #4541 but didn't write what's presented!

 

[jackmott]

I don't understand. I am quoted in your post #4541 but didn't write what's presented!

Sorry, I think I've fixed it!

 

[AAKEE]

Keeping M3 at a low SoC (30-40-50%) has been discussed as a means of limiting calendar aging when the vehicle is parked/stored unused. What about the Tesla recommendation, a happy Tesla is a plugged in Tesla, during that storage? Does anybody think that makes a difference if the car is stored at low SoC but plugged in?

If you plug it in but not set any charging active( not start the charging and no scheduled charging) I do not think there will be any difference.
As soon as as you charge it, it would hit 50% at least so then the SOC maybe will end up higher.

I recently started a new job with readiness during one week each time, so I leave the car with about 40-50% SOC, not connected. Its parked outside and there really is no decent chargers nearby, but 250km back home via a Supercharger 100km away. I am happy with this, if there had been any real chargers nearby I might had left the car at 20-25% or something like that. So far very low temps so the battery probsbly do not age at all anyway.

 

[FlatSix911]

Doing both seems to work for me. I keep my 3 plugged in all the time, and my target SOC is 60%, and I've still got 310miles of estimated range, which is what it came with.

My Stats battery range estimate is in my avatar. It still shows 310miles at over 32k miles and 3.5yrs.

Impressive... how did you get your range to increase on the Tesla Stats app, mine always shows a reduction over time.

 

[KenC]

Impressive... how did you get your range to increase on the Tesla Stats app, mine always shows a reduction over time.

View attachment 796302 View attachment 796306

Actually, it never increased. Before Jan 2021, Stats' developer used the SOC api that was temperature-affected, so the estimated range would vary due to the season. I got my 3 in December, so it looks like I had 300 miles of range, but that was the temp-affected estimate. By Spring, around 4000 miles, it was back up to 310 on average. Without the temp effect, my estimated range was always 310 miles.

After two more Winter dips, the developer changed SOC apis. As mentioned, that was in Jan 2021. On my chart, that happened right before 15000 miles. If you look, there's a sudden jump in the middle of Winter to 310. And, it's stayed fairly close to 310 since. Having said that, this past winter there was the tiniest dip around 30,000 miles.

So, before Jan 2021, the Stats data shows a combo of temp effects and estimated battery deg. After Jan 2021, the Stats data only shows estimated battery deg.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Actually, it never increased. Before Jan 2021, Stats' developer used the SOC api that was temperature-affected, so the estimated range would vary due to the season. I got my 3 in December, so it looks like I had 300 miles of range, but that was the temp-affected estimate. By Spring, around 4000 miles, it was back up to 310 on average. Without the temp effect, my estimated range was always 310 miles.

After two more Winter dips, the developer changed SOC apis. As mentioned, that was in Jan 2021. On my chart, that happened right before 15000 miles. If you look, there's a sudden jump in the middle of Winter to 310. And, it's stayed fairly close to 310 since. Having said that, this past winter there was the tiniest dip around 30,000 miles.

So, before Jan 2021, the Stats data shows a combo of temp effects and estimated battery deg. After Jan 2021, the Stats data only shows estimated battery deg.

Telsa needs to reclaim this battery from you and study it (can't imagine you'd let them pry it away though!). I'm still curious how many batteries there are out there like this. Obviously we usually see the worst case reports; few people take the time to report their perfect batteries - they probably don't even appreciate what they have.

 

[Steve446]

Actually, it never increased. Before Jan 2021, Stats' developer used the SOC api that was temperature-affected, so the estimated range would vary due to the season. I got my 3 in December, so it looks like I had 300 miles of range, but that was the temp-affected estimate. By Spring, around 4000 miles, it was back up to 310 on average. Without the temp effect, my estimated range was always 310 miles.

After two more Winter dips, the developer changed SOC apis. As mentioned, that was in Jan 2021. On my chart, that happened right before 15000 miles. If you look, there's a sudden jump in the middle of Winter to 310. And, it's stayed fairly close to 310 since. Having said that, this past winter there was the tiniest dip around 30,000 miles.

So, before Jan 2021, the Stats data shows a combo of temp effects and estimated battery deg. After Jan 2021, the Stats data only shows estimated battery deg.

It is indeed impressive. @KenC, do you use SMT? I was just wondering if you had any data for the NFP and energy buffer of your car?

 

[My Corona]

Hi all, am new here and need help with the real battery low “not to exceed”. If Tesla holds about 5% charge in reserve below 0% showing, is it okay to regularly return home from a commute with a 5% charge (for overnight charging)? That’s actually a 10% battery charge remaining, right?

 

[Jeremy3292]

What is your actual concern? I'm not following your post. There is no problem returning home with 5% charge from your commute as it appears you must have a long commute.

 

[STS-134]

What is your actual concern? I'm not following your post. There is no problem returning home with 5% charge from your commute as it appears you must have a long commute.

There's no problem using all of the battery's capacity, but doing it habitually? Not so good. You usually want to avoid < 20% and > 80% and especially < 10% and > 90%.

 

[Jeremy3292]

There's no problem using all of the battery's capacity, but doing it habitually? Not so good. You usually want to avoid <20% and >80% and especially <10% and >90%.

Yes of course but it sounds like the OP doesn't have a choice as the commute must be very long if he is returning home every day with only 5% left.

 

[STS-134]

Yes of course but it sounds like the OP doesn't have a choice as the commute must be very long if he is returning home every day with only 5% left.

Not necessarily. If you're returning home with 5% because you have the charge limit set to 60% and you aren't charging at work, you can set the charge limit to 80% and return home with 25%. Or you can keep the limit at 60%, charge at work, and return home with 32.5%. Either option is better for the battery than habitually running it down to 5%, with the second being better than the first.

 

[jjrandorin]

Hi all, am new here and need help with the real battery low “not to exceed”. If Tesla holds about 5% charge in reserve below 0% showing, is it okay to regularly return home from a commute with a 5% charge (for overnight charging)? That’s actually a 10% battery charge remaining, right?

Depends on what you mean by "Ok".

You gotta do what you gotta do, but for long term health of the battery? I personally would be planning on selling the car are 2-3 years. Also, if you have "5% left now", during your regular commute, and you are starting with 90%, when you have some battery degradation (which IS going to happen, 100%, its a function of all batteries), you will no longer be able to make that commute.

You will need to plan somewhere to charge a bit in the middle of that commute then (when you get a bit of degradation), so you should scope that out now, and get used to doing it.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Not necessarily. If you're returning home with 5% because you have the charge limit set to 60% and you aren't charging at work, you can set the charge limit to 80% and return home with 25%. Or you can keep the limit at 60%, charge at work, and return home with 32.5%. Either option is better for the battery than habitually running it down to 5%, with the second being better than the first.

Lol.

If the OP is doing that then yes I would certainly agree with you. However, that's not what it seemed like from the post. If you are concerned about returning from a commute with 5% but are only charging to 60% every day, then very obviously you would start with a higher SOC to not end your day at 5%...

 

[KenC]

It is indeed impressive. @KenC, do you use SMT? I was just wondering if you had any data for the NFP and energy buffer of your car?

Sorry, no. I've thought about it, but just haven't had the time to buy and do it. Maybe, if I find more time this Summer.

Telsa needs to reclaim this battery from you and study it (can't imagine you'd let them pry it away though!). I'm still curious how many batteries there are out there like this. Obviously we usually see the worst case reports; few people take the time to report their perfect batteries - they probably don't even appreciate what they have.

Well, Stats has offered a new bit of data in the last few months, which shows a comparison of your Tesla's estimated range relative to others, and apparently, I'm at 93%ile, which means there are 7% better than mine, for the same mileage and model. Yes, same mileage and model. I specifically asked the developer if he was also comparing a 2021 to my 2018, and he said he wasn't.

As you can see, I'm at 93%ile, even though I'm at 311 miles estimated for a 2018 LR-AWD.

Here's the twitter thread where I asked him about other model years, and he again said it was same year and model. Funny thing is that was 2000 miles ago, my range is up a bit to 311 estimated, and yet my percentile is down to 93% from 95%. Whatever. Must be limited datapoints or something.

 

[Steve446]

Sorry, no. I've thought about it, but just haven't had the time to buy and do it. Maybe, if I find more time this Summer.

Well, Stats has offered a new bit of data in the last few months, which shows a comparison of your Tesla's estimated range relative to others, and apparently, I'm at 93%ile, which means there are 7% better than mine, for the same mileage and model. Yes, same mileage and model. I specifically asked the developer if he was also comparing a 2021 to my 2018, and he said he wasn't.
View attachment 796423
As you can see, I'm at 93%ile, even though I'm at 311 miles estimated for a 2018 LR-AWD.
View attachment 796441
Here's the twitter thread where I asked him about other model years, and he again said it was same year and model. Funny thing is that was 2000 miles ago, my range is up a bit to 311 estimated, and yet my percentile is down to 93% from 95%. Whatever. Must be limited datapoints or something.

Thanks for the extra information and, really appreciated! Now I'm jealous, your car and the others must have a static warp field around them (honestly just joking!!!).

 

[AAKEE]

There's no problem using all of the battery's capacity, but doing it habitually? Not so good. You usually want to avoid < 20% and > 80% and especially < 10% and > 90%.

Thats not correct.

Lithium batteries is fine down to 0%*.
The 20 and 10% thing is a myth.
A lot of the “saying” on the net about lithium battery care is not correct.

*) 0% is defined as the low voltage limit set for the cell, for Tesla Panasonic cells its 2.50V/cell. The battery shut down before reaching the cell low voltage limit.

Actually, lithium batteries is more than just fine at low SOC.

Hi all, am new here and need help with the real battery low “not to exceed”. If Tesla holds about 5% charge in reserve below 0% showing, is it okay to regularly return home from a commute with a 5% charge (for overnight charging)? That’s actually a 10% battery charge remaining, right?

No problem.

The lower SOC the better from a battery perspective.
Calendar aging is lower the lower the SOC.

Cyclic aging is lower at lower SOC.
Cyclic aging is lower the smaller the cycles is.

This image( taken from research) show calendar aging, low SOC is best so no need to be afraid of 20 or 10%.

And for the cyclic part, 0-10% SOC during cycles is the best to keep degradation low.
Below, a picture from another test report.
Lowest degradation will be when cycling at very low SOC.

So, no reason to worry at all about low SOC.