G26okie
2020 P3D-
Yeah, I definitely think it holds weight. I've seen slight decreases in rated miles when charging more frequently for smaller outings, and then saw some increases letting the car sit at lower SoC before charging back to 90%.
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Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health
- Thread starter KK_RedM3
- Start date
Yeah, I definitely think it holds weight. I've seen slight decreases in rated miles when charging more frequently for smaller outings, and then saw some increases letting the car sit at lower SoC before charging back to 90%.
Commonly spread misconception. It’s not even close to that.
A BMS is not blind, the current voltage when parked, driving and voltage “sag” combined with measured imbalance says more then enough.
A tesla BMS, combined with known (current) cel voltage says alot about the real current useable capacity and is easily capable of knowing useable capacity at almost all times.
If you have ScanMyTesla, you will see the BMS is never off (much) and can always almost tell exact capacity close to 0.1kWh accurately.
camthehombre
Member
Not sure if this is the place to post this but I'm a bit confused. I understand that the car will lose range when not in use whether it's from phantom drain or sentry mode or any other number of factors. I just took a road trip and on my LR RWD 3 averaged 215 Wh/mi on my first leg. Full charge showed an estimate of 300 miles and after driving 241 miles I had 17 miles remaining. Now, if I had gotten 236 Wh/mi (which is the EPA estimate) then after 241 miles I should have had roughly 59 miles remaining, but I used 10% less energy than what the EPA rating is based off of. So shouldn't I have had something more like 300-217 (which is 241*90% of the EPA Wh/mi used) or 83 miles remaining?
I left at 100% and arrived with 17 miles or just shy of 8% with no stops in between and great Wh/mi. So what am I missing? Car said I had used 60 kWh of 75 kWh battery. 241 miles/60 kWh is about 4 miles per kWh. Again, 11-15 kWh remaining depending on if you count the buffer or not should leave me with 44-60 miles of range left IF I had been at the EPA 236 Wh/mi but again I was only using about 90% of that. Even using 90% of the EPA calculation I would only have made it about 260 miles. How is anyone supposed to get anywhere near the 300+ miles?
Does the 3 not account for HVAC system in the energy usage card? I know our last S did, but I'm starting to wonder if that part of it? Any info would be appreciated.
I left at 100% and arrived with 17 miles or just shy of 8% with no stops in between and great Wh/mi. So what am I missing? Car said I had used 60 kWh of 75 kWh battery. 241 miles/60 kWh is about 4 miles per kWh. Again, 11-15 kWh remaining depending on if you count the buffer or not should leave me with 44-60 miles of range left IF I had been at the EPA 236 Wh/mi but again I was only using about 90% of that. Even using 90% of the EPA calculation I would only have made it about 260 miles. How is anyone supposed to get anywhere near the 300+ miles?
Does the 3 not account for HVAC system in the energy usage card? I know our last S did, but I'm starting to wonder if that part of it? Any info would be appreciated.
Something doesn't make sense with your numbers (like, something is missing). But note that the "rated" efficiency for your car would be 223Wh/mi to my understanding, not 236 (there's some caveats to this, read here for far more info on the weirdness of 2018/2019 behaviour: 2020, 2019, 2018 Model 3 Battery Capacities & Charging Constants).
To get a non-rounded "used" amount instead of just 60kWh, multiply the Wh/mi by the range. This is 51815Wh, or about 51.8kWh.
And here indicates the first issue: 60kWh is very far away from 51.8kWh, not just rounded. You have numbers that don't agree with each other. Are you sure you haven't mixed the "since last charge" and "this session" (topmost) meters? Or some other trip meters? The "this session" one would reset if you parked and opened the driver's door.
300mi @ 100% suggests you have a usable battery capacity of 66.9kWh, which is honestly lower than I'd expect (but I'm not sure how many miles are on the odometer, among other factors). It does however make sense that 8% was left if you used roughly 60kWh after starting at 100%, so I'm inclined to believe you did in fact use about 60kWh. It also gives credibility to you saying you drove mostly straight there, since all energy in the car is accounted for except for some very negligible things, but only while driving.
The only way this situation makes sense to me is if the portion you got that was 51.8kWh (241mi @ 215Wh/mi) was a portion of the trip, which can easily happen by accident if you made literally any stop and looked at the first meter (e.g. stop to throw something in a garbage can, wash windshield, put in park and checked your tires, etc.).
camthehombre
Member
Thanks for that link, I'll have to look into that. I was under the impression it was 236, so that's some good info.
I'm pretty sure I used the "since last charge". I stopped one time about a mile in to adjust something in the back of the car and then the rest of the drive was all done in one go, without stopping or opening the door or anything. Could 1 mile in make that big of a difference? I can't imagine it would?
300 @ 100% is what my car has show for a while. Currently at 39k miles and has shown 300 since about 30k miles. Before that it showed about 308 but then suddenly dropped and hasn't come back.
What things are not accounted for? HVAC is, correct?
Anyways, thank you so much for your help so far. It gives me things to look at and make sure of last time, but I'm 99% sure that I was looking at the "since last charge screen" and didn't make other stops other than that first one I mentioned.
Did you drive straight up a steep hill for that one mile while blasting the AC?
So honestly, I don't know. But the fact that 241 miles @ 215Wh/mi isn't even close to 60kWh means something wasn't taken right, unfortunately. Of course there could be some weird issue I'm either not thinking of or I'm not aware of. Does 241 miles actually make sense for your route if you plot it on Google Maps?
HVAC is accounted for. The main thing I can think of that isn't is net loss in the 12V battery's available capacity during the drive. Since it tries to take care of it (but may still charge it more after parking, briefly), this is in the range of a few dozen watt-hours at most. Super super negligible and I wouldn't even mention it normally, but I'm trying to avoid the "well actually" comments
Side note: I do this all the time, everyone I know does as well, no shame in it. Instead of 215Wh/mi, was it perhaps actually 251Wh/mi? Mixed up number placement? Because that would be 60.491kWh, which would round down to 60kWh on the display, and agree with all the other numbers you posted.
camthehombre
Member
Nah, it was flat.Did you drive straight up a steep hill for that one mile while blasting the AC?
So honestly, I don't know. But the fact that 241 miles @ 215Wh/mi isn't even close to 60kWh means something wasn't taken right, unfortunately. Of course there could be some weird issue I'm either not thinking of or I'm not aware of. Does 241 miles actually make sense for your route if you plot it on Google Maps?
HVAC is accounted for. The main thing I can think of that isn't is net loss in the 12V battery's available capacity during the drive. Since it tries to take care of it (but may still charge it more after parking, briefly), this is in the range of a few dozen watt-hours at most. Super super negligible and I wouldn't even mention it normally, but I'm trying to avoid the "well actually" comments
Side note: I do this all the time, everyone I know does as well, no shame in it. Instead of 215Wh/mi, was it perhaps actually 251Wh/mi? Mixed up number placement? Because that would be 60.491kWh, which would round down to 60kWh on the display, and agree with all the other numbers you posted.
So I put it in google maps and it's showing 251 miles... so I'm guessing I was looking at the wrong card and now I feel like an idiot. Still doesn't fully make sense as the first part is still fairly flat. I won't give exact address but the trip was from Donnelly Idaho to Burley Idaho Supercharger. So maybe I fat fingered the 251 instead of 241 or just was looking at the wrong card.
Honestly that would make more sense now that you mention it. I drove from Kemmerer, Wyoming to Burley SuC on one charge and that was 244.7 miles at 235 Wh/mi with no stops used 57 kWh. Left with 90% charge if I remember correctly (I don't have a photo of it) and arrive with 9 miles left or 3% which 90% of 66.9 kWh usable is 60 kWh, 3 remaining/9 miles makes perfect sense.
Thanks for your input/help. I will learn for the next time and for now I will hang my head in shame.
haha
MarcG
Active Member
Next time just take photos of the trip meter right at the beginning and then at the end of your trip. Make sure to include the rated range in the shots. I do that every long trip and use the Trip A meter, which I reset just before I take the first photo.
camthehombre
Member
Happy to report I must have been wrong. Did a 112.2 mile trip today. 198 Wh/mi and used 22 kW which showed range go from 268 to 168. 22 kW is 1/3 of the battery as is 100 miles used exactly. Thanks to @camalaio for the info and help. Hope it helps someone else in the future as well.
My car was around the same date and currently has same mileage and capacity. I will be interested to see if you have any luck.
I'm starting to wonder what kind of a brand Tesla wants to be. I've complained about range loss, and got the same "canned" response as you all: "Its within spec, nothing we can do." After I took my wife's BMW in for service Saturday, had a stark does of the other side. They absolutely bend over backwards to make it right. On a previous occasion, I had them swap a nav system because the bluetooth connetion was flaky.
Now when friends ask about my Tesla, I say its fun to drive and all, but I dunno about the longevity. Even if we dip below that 70% capacity, its my understanding you get a remanufactured pack that not even close to a new one.
Now when friends ask about my Tesla, I say its fun to drive and all, but I dunno about the longevity. Even if we dip below that 70% capacity, its my understanding you get a remanufactured pack that not even close to a new one.
Same delivery date here and amazingly similar degradation also. I'm just around 278 miles at 100% however I have 50k miles. I also asked my local service center about several battery related TSB's but they gave me a speech on how my battery is within spec and how my car does not qualify for the TSB's. If you have any luck, Please post here so I can have some ammo when I ask them again. Good luck to you
Candleflame
Active Member
the 2018 packs are objectively in bad shape as evident by rushed production and multiple battery issues in the tesla circulars.
Candleflame
Active Member
That makes sense. My 2018 Model 3 LR RWD had no degradation issues. My 2020 Model 3 LR AWD with 1700 miles has already lost 3%.
Bar3
Member
My battery pack is a late 2019 and it’s a piece of crap. So not true. My degradation is severe.
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