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Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

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the car seems to now take OVC readings and recalibrate preferably WITHOUT sleeping and by keeping the car awake.

I have noticed this too.
Yesterday i was doing some work in garage and the car was doing some strange sound with radiators fan, maybe trying to equalize the battery ?
Car was at 40% SOC and was parked half an hour before.
Car is also recovering some KWh ( 70.6 Kwh at the moment ), maybe due to the new BMS software.
 
I have a basic charging question for those of you that have had a Tesla for an extended period of time. Everywhere I read there are posts that say when you are at home, you should keep your car plugged in and charging at ALL times, preferably staying between the magic 20% - 80% range to keep from causing any permanent damage to the battery.

My question is this, the distance I travel to work is just enough to where if I were to charge my Model 3 to 90%, I could actually make the drive twice on one charge and stay slightly above the magic 20% range. So is it harder on the battery to charge to 90% and charge every other day or charge to only 80% and charge daily?

It would cut the number of actual charges in half but it would also cause me to charge the battery to 90% which according to everywhere I have read is not recommended on a frequent basis. Thoughts? Any real world experience on this to know if charging to 90% is actually deterimental to the battery?

I guess I am asking what is harder on the battery, charging to the higher capacity (90% vs 80%) or charging more frequently (daily vs every two days)…
Why not aim for daily, between 30 and 70% ?

As far as charging to 90, that's pretty much what I've done since new. That may have >something< to do with my 100% range being down to 283 now(!)
 
I have a basic charging question for those of you that have had a Tesla for an extended period of time. Everywhere I read there are posts that say when you are at home, you should keep your car plugged in and charging at ALL times, preferably staying between the magic 20% - 80% range to keep from causing any permanent damage to the battery.

My question is this, the distance I travel to work is just enough to where if I were to charge my Model 3 to 90%, I could actually make the drive twice on one charge and stay slightly above the magic 20% range. So is it harder on the battery to charge to 90% and charge every other day or charge to only 80% and charge daily?

It would cut the number of actual charges in half but it would also cause me to charge the battery to 90% which according to everywhere I have read is not recommended on a frequent basis. Thoughts? Any real world experience on this to know if charging to 90% is actually deterimental to the battery?

I guess I am asking what is harder on the battery, charging to the higher capacity (90% vs 80%) or charging more frequently (daily vs every two days)…
Short fills more often, to a lower SOC, are better than longer fills less often to a higher SOC. The relationship is not linear.
 
Crazy that the streak continues. This is such an outlier it really makes me wonder if something is wrong! Has anyone heard of anyone else who has not seen any rated range degradation in 3 years? (In this case it is possible that about 2-3% capacity has been lost but that would still be really good, obviously.)
IMG_2837.jpeg

It's not like it's garage-kept or not driven. Plus, it came to me mid-December '18 with ZERO SOC, so it's suffered a near-death experience to start its life. Why it shows no visible deg? Got me. Maybe, I'll get a OBD reader someday.
 
Why not aim for daily, between 30 and 70% ?

As far as charging to 90, that's pretty much what I've done since new. That may have >something< to do with my 100% range being down to 283 now(!)
Thanks for the reply. I guess I’m still a newbie here it just seems to me that the fewer charging cycles the battery goes through the longer the battery should last but maybe not in this scenario.Thanks for the reply. I guess I’m still a newbie here it just seems to me that the fewer charging cycles the battery goes through the longer the battery should last but maybe not in this scenario.
 
View attachment 731520
It's not like it's garage-kept or not driven. Plus, it came to me mid-December '18 with ZERO SOC, so it's suffered a near-death experience to start its life. Why it shows no visible deg? Got me. Maybe, I'll get a OBD reader someday.

Battery lottery. And there is no evidence that going to 0% is harmful except for when you undervolt the battery. Which doesnt happen at 0% storage anyway.
 
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Hello, I just got my M3P couple weeks ago is a 2020 with 11K miles, have a question about the battery health, fist day I got it I charged to 100% just to check the range and the range was 274 miles, I normally charge to 90% and it shows 249 miles of range, I drive 144 miles round trip to work every day and by the time I make it home is usually between 50 and 60 miles of range left :(, is this normal? I normally drive with the autopilot about 10 miles above the speed limit.
I have a wall charger in my garage.
IMG_9969.JPG
 
Hello, I just got my M3P couple weeks ago is a 2020 with 11K miles, have a question about the battery health, fist day I got it I charged to 100% just to check the range and the range was 274 miles, I normally charge to 90% and it shows 249 miles of range, I drive 144 miles round trip to work every day and by the time I make it home is usually between 50 and 60 miles of range left :(, is this normal? I normally drive with the autopilot about 10 miles above the speed limit.
I have a wall charger in my garage.
View attachment 731925
Hope you're enjoying your car. Everything seems very normal.

Your car has lost 8.5% capacity from when it was new (274/299). So now it has about ~71kWh of energy available including the buffer, instead of 77.8kWh. So it has ~68kWh available between 274 miles and 0 miles; the buffer is 3.2kWh or so..

Sounds like you use about 190-200 miles of rated range to travel 144 miles.

That means you use 200rmi*(68kWh/274rmi) = 49.6kWh for this trip. And your Wh/mi displayed on the trip meter will be about 340Wh/mi. However, it might not display quite this high - because you may lose considerable energy while you are parked, which is not counted on the trip meter. (You'd have to check your rated miles used while parked to determine this missing amount.)

Anyway, for your reference, each displayed rated mile on your vehicle is about 248.5Wh. So if you get about 245Wh/mi on the trip meter, you'll get 1 rated mile used per mile traveled (applied 1% loss factor). If you have higher usage than that, you'll use more rated miles per mile traveled.

It's all very deterministic.
 
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My model 3 SR+ is not even a year old. Full charge now only goes upto 230 miles vs the advertised 240mi range.

Primarily used superchargers when traveling from CA to TX once, about 30-35 stops on the round trip. Rest of the time, it's mostly charged to 80 or 90% at home with a Juicenet charger. This feels too soon for a range drop. I'm not referring to driving range, just the range displayed at 100% charge.

Firstly, anyone with similar issues?
Secondly, how do you bring this up with Tesla without having to schedule appointment? Any similar conversations, resolutions or experiences from others here would be appreciated.
Yes I am having similar problems.The mileage on my model went from 245 to to 229 to 219 on a 2020 model 3 with less than 13000 miles.I have complained to Tesla many times but giving lame excuses.
 
2021 Model 3 SR+ here, 25,000 km driven. Majority 12V trickle charging without maybe 20 supercharges this year. All supercharged were just for 30-40 percent of a charge and were properly warmed up on route to the charged.

Started with roughly 421km of est range, now I’m seeing 390 at 100% charge. (I’ve only charged o 100% twice, the first day and yesterday)

That’s roughly 9-10% degradation… seems high :( is this normal?
 
2021 Model 3 SR+ here, 25,000 km driven. Majority 12V trickle charging without maybe 20 supercharges this year. All supercharged were just for 30-40 percent of a charge and were properly warmed up on route to the charged.

Started with roughly 421km of est range, now I’m seeing 390 at 100% charge. (I’ve only charged o 100% twice, the first day and yesterday)

That’s roughly 9-10% degradation… seems high :( is this normal?
Completely normal for these battery packs! Enjoy the car.
 
2021 Model 3 SR+ here, 25,000 km driven. Majority 12V trickle charging without maybe 20 supercharges this year. All supercharged were just for 30-40 percent of a charge and were properly warmed up on route to the charged.

Started with roughly 421km of est range, now I’m seeing 390 at 100% charge. (I’ve only charged o 100% twice, the first day and yesterday)

That’s roughly 9-10% degradation… seems high :( is this normal?

indeed, completely normal.
 
2021 Model 3 SR+ here, 25,000 km driven. Majority 12V trickle charging without maybe 20 supercharges this year. All supercharged were just for 30-40 percent of a charge and were properly warmed up on route to the charged.

Started with roughly 421km of est range, now I’m seeing 390 at 100% charge. (I’ve only charged o 100% twice, the first day and yesterday)

That’s roughly 9-10% degradation… seems high :( is this normal?
You are doing pretty good. My 2019 SR+ (240 range) is lucky to get 200 miles on a full charge, or about 16% degradation. 26k miles, never supercharged, charge to 90% every other day or so at 32amp via Tesla Wall Connector.

Anyone think this battery is making it 8 years or 100k miles? ;)
 
Hi Guys

Probably a very common question I have but I’ve seen so many different answers I’m not sure what to believe. Apologies in advance of it’s of annoyance.
I have a 2019 Model 3 SR + it has 29k mileage and my current range estimate at 90% charge is 190 miles. Does this seem low or normal to anyone who may know? Love the car and I’m not too concerned with the range but I’d like to make sure it’s comparable to other owners.

Thanks
 
So we just had a dramatic change in our range on our 21' M3P with just over 9k miles. First noticed when wife drove 130miles (freeway down and back for work) starting at 90% and returned with an estimated 75miles. 310wh/mi in the 30mi graph but I didn't check Batt % before wife plugged in to charge.

Charged to 90%, drove this weekend through today. 307wh/mi, 54kw usage, 11% remaining (est. 34mi), 178mi driven.

So based on 54kw usage and draining from 90% down to 11%, That would be a battery capacity of: 54/(.9-.11) = 68kw total capacity estimate.

If its a mileage estimate for a 100% battery: 178/(.9-.11) = 225mi (an estimate if charged to 100%)

And finally, when charged to 90% est shows ~270mi range (we're running 200tw sticky tires as well, but this is been appropriate historically in estimation), but the actual 90% range seems to be closer to 200mi. And to confirm, this is definitely less than we have been getting.

Normal charging habit, we only charge 1 or 2x per week depending on use. Letting it drain down to 40-50% typically before plugging in. Charge at 16amp, 220v 20amp plug. Im letting car sit till this evening to plug in and recharge back to 90%.

Is there a consensus or "expert" opinion if I should charge this evening or try to get to 5% then charge fully back to 100%?
 
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So we just had a dramatic change in our range on our 21' M3P with just over 9k miles. First noticed when wife drove 130miles (freeway down and back for work) starting at 90% and returned with an estimated 75miles. 310wh/mi in the 30mi graph but I didn't check Batt % before wife plugged in to charge.

Charged to 90%, drove this weekend through today. 307wh/mi, 54kw usage, 11% remaining (est. 34mi), 178mi driven.

So based on 54kw usage and draining from 90% down to 11%, That would be a battery capacity of: 54/(.9-.11) = 68kw total capacity estimate.

If its a mileage estimate for a 100% battery: 178/(.9-.11) = 225mi (an estimate if charged to 100%)

And finally, when charged to 90% est shows ~270mi range (we're running 200tw sticky tires as well, but this is been appropriate historically in estimation), but the actual 90% range seems to be closer to 200mi. And to confirm, this is definitely less than we have been getting.

Normal charging habit, we only charge 1 or 2x per week depending on use. Letting it drain down to 40-50% typically before plugging in. Charge at 16amp, 220v 20amp plug. Im letting car sit till this evening to plug in and recharge back to 90%.

Is there a consensus or "expert" opinion if I should charge this evening or try to get to 5% then charge fully back to 100%?
Check the range loss stickies & the 2021 thread, and the energy screen method sticky.

You're fine. Just pay attention to the 90%, 270-mile number. That means you have 300 rated miles at 100%, after starting with 315 rated miles. So 5% capacity loss, which is perfectly normal after 9k miles. I don't think it's worth worrying about trying to recalibrate the BMS - it's probably close and it will recover on its own with your use patterns, if there is any error.

So you have 80.7kWh*300/315 = 77kWh remaining in your battery, of which 73.5kWh is available between 100% and 0%. You started with around 80.7kWh, roughly (77kWh to 0%). (All this info on how to arrive at these numbers is in the stickies.)

All the daily usage stuff is just noise unless you happened to watch how much energy you lost while in park. Continuous trips without stopping are the only way to assess how much energy your battery has (unless you use the energy screen method). That's why your calculations of capacity based on the trip meter don't match the numbers I give above. The meter does not count energy used while in Park, which can be substantial.

You're in Oregon and it's raining cats & dogs and somewhat cold, with thicker air and more heat pump use, so your real-world consumption will go up. That's probably why your real-world range has gone down.

If you want to get 300 miles out of your 77kWh pack to 0%, you need to do: 0.955*77kWh/300mi = ~245Wh/mi. (Likely closer to 242Wh/mi due to heat loss.)

And if you do higher than that, just scale the range accordingly. It's very deterministic and simple. So at 310Wh/mi, expect 234 miles from 100% to 0%. (0.955*77kWh*0.99/310Wh/mi = 234 mi). But only if you do it in one continuous drive without stopping. These mileages will all leave you at 0 rated miles, 0%, with about 4.5% of your energy left.

Unless you need 90% (it seems that you sometimes do), I'd recommend using a daily charge limit of 70% or so. It may not matter much in the end, though. Do not lower it if it means you need to use Superchargers. Make it easy on yourself; no one likes to sit at Superchargers unless it is required.
 
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