Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[Candleflame]

looks right, especially considering how cold it is this is actually REALLY decent. You either had rear wind or didnt drive very fast.

When I drive on our country lanes (110ish km/h with a bit of 120-130kmh while noone is looking) in our hot weather with only AC I use around 280wh/mile -> and thats without heating. though i have rimetrix aeros which arent as good.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Well "30% less than 358mi" would be 251 miles.

With your 80kWh (usable) battery and your measured consumption of 266 Wh/mi you are seeing 80,000/266 = 301 miles, or about 16% below the rating.

 

[Kaz93]

I have always wondered this and am finally getting around to asking the question of which is better for my M3P battery? I routinely drive to San Diego from up north and the drive is about 5 hours long. When i embark on my trip, i routinely charge to 95% or 96% and drive down. For me to make it down there, i have to hit a supercharger even with 100% SoC. I never charge to 100% because i hear that it is bad for the battery. On the other side, i always hear that supercharging is bad for the battery as well. So, what would be better for battery health? Charge to 100% and supercharge for a small bit of time? or charge to only 90-95% SoC and supercharge for longer? What is better for overall battery health? i know this is not much of a difference but figured i would ask anyways.

 

[jmaddr]

You are asking a REALLY specific either-or question for which I doubt you'll find empirical data. What you will find and hear is internet conjecture about personal observations but lacking that all too critical empirical data. So here's mine...

100% state-of-charge should be avoided more-so than supercharging. Sitting for hours, or worse - days, at 100% should be avoided at all costs.

 

[jjrandorin]

I have always wondered this and am finally getting around to asking the question of which is better for my M3P battery? I routinely drive to San Diego from up north and the drive is about 5 hours long. When i embark on my trip, i routinely charge to 95% or 96% and drive down. For me to make it down there, i have to hit a supercharger even with 100% SoC. I never charge to 100% because i hear that it is bad for the battery. On the other side, i always hear that supercharging is bad for the battery as well. So, what would be better for battery health? Charge to 100% and supercharge for a small bit of time? or charge to only 90-95% SoC and supercharge for longer? What is better for overall battery health? i know this is not much of a difference but figured i would ask anyways.

Do whichever is more convenient for you. As far as charging to 100%, the important thing there is just to do that when you are going on a trip, and dont let the car sit at 100% for a long length of time.

The amount you are likely doing both of those things is not likely to matter to much in the overall scheme of "your battery", unless you are doing it every week or something.

 

[Candleflame]

I have always wondered this and am finally getting around to asking the question of which is better for my M3P battery? I routinely drive to San Diego from up north and the drive is about 5 hours long. When i embark on my trip, i routinely charge to 95% or 96% and drive down. For me to make it down there, i have to hit a supercharger even with 100% SoC. I never charge to 100% because i hear that it is bad for the battery. On the other side, i always hear that supercharging is bad for the battery as well. So, what would be better for battery health? Charge to 100% and supercharge for a small bit of time? or charge to only 90-95% SoC and supercharge for longer? What is better for overall battery health? i know this is not much of a difference but figured i would ask anyways.

I think if this topic has tought us one thing it is that individual habits are almost irrelevant to battery longevity with battery lottery +- ambient temperature being by far the most important things.

I personally would charge to 90% on your regular trip and supercharge longer. The reason why I say that is that you arrive with an emptier battery at a supercharger so you also charge faster - the result is that charging time is almost the same.
I notice that when (before I had so much degradation) I'd drive to Townsville. 370km and 100% - > 15% was the same charging stop lenght as 90% -> 5%.

 

[KenC]

I have always wondered this and am finally getting around to asking the question of which is better for my M3P battery? I routinely drive to San Diego from up north and the drive is about 5 hours long. When i embark on my trip, i routinely charge to 95% or 96% and drive down. For me to make it down there, i have to hit a supercharger even with 100% SoC. I never charge to 100% because i hear that it is bad for the battery. On the other side, i always hear that supercharging is bad for the battery as well. So, what would be better for battery health? Charge to 100% and supercharge for a small bit of time? or charge to only 90-95% SoC and supercharge for longer? What is better for overall battery health? i know this is not much of a difference but figured i would ask anyways.

No matter what you do, you'll charge at least one time, so I'd do what's the most practical and convenient.

Your question really is, is it better to charge to high SOC levels, above 90% at home, or is it better to do a little more Supercharging at low SOC levels?

I have no proof, but everything tells me that it's better to do a little more Supercharging at lower SOCs, than it is to charge up above 90%, and leave it there, before leaving for a trip.

If it were me, I'd charge to your normal, non-trip levels; and then Supercharge when around 15% SOC, to about 65%, 15mins. Then your 3 never spends any time at high SOC levels.

 

[KenC]

I am not sure if this was already discussed but I just want to get your guys opinion on this. I just picked my 2022 M3 Long Range exactly 7 days ago. As per Tesla website the estimated range is 358 miles on a full charge. I know these numbers are relative and reality I should expect at least 30% less than that but I feel like my range is way lower than that.

I did some range tests recently and here are my results:
First of all I live in Pittsburgh PA which can be hilly in some areas and the temperature during my test was between 30- 45 degrees Fahrenheit
I charged the car to 90% and I was planning to see how many real miles not expected I will get between 90% and 20%.

So far with 40% battery left I drove 113.5 miles, with 30 kWh used and 266 Wh/mi which in my opinion is low. I feel like these numbers should be close to the SR + model.

I guess my questions are:
Are these numbers ok ?
Is the battery calibrating or something during the first months?

Cold temps around 32f, knock off a minimum of 20% of range. The more heat you use, the more you'll knock off. If you blast your heat on MAX, like in your old ICE, you can lose 40%. You also didn't say how fast you were driving. For me, 265Wh/mile, could be 75mph on a Summer day, but it's not Summer!

 

[mattnis]

Since it's recommended to charge max 90% capacity for daily use,
does that mean if my battery is already 10% degraded (from July 2019, 18k miles), then I can charge to 100% and still be at that 90% original capacity?

 

[KenC]

Since it's recommended to charge max 90% capacity for daily use,
does that mean if my battery is already 10% degraded (from July 2019, 18k miles), then I can charge to 100% and still be at that 90% original capacity?

If I understand you correctly, no.

 

[RayK]

I believe it's always a percentage of the current state of full capacity, not the original capacity.

 

[ArchEtech]

^^^this. The full capacity and range will be in a constant state of change. Forever.

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

Would cold weather effect the estimated max range of my 3? I’m not talking about real world range, but what the vehicle can theoretically achieve on a full battery. The car is only three months old and I usually charge to between 80 and 90 percent at home. Max range is supposed to be 263 miles, but I pushed the slider to 100% just for kicks (to see what it would say) tonight and is says max 250 miles. Surely the battery hasn’t degraded that much in three months…

 

[Candleflame]

Would cold weather effect the estimated max range of my 3? I’m not talking about real world range, but what the vehicle can theoretically achieve on a full battery. The car is only three months old and I usually charge to between 80 and 90 percent at home. Max range is supposed to be 263 miles, but I pushed the slider to 100% just for kicks (to see what it would say) tonight and is says max 250 miles. Surely the battery hasn’t degraded that much in three months…

the official answer is no but unofficially you will get a very slight drop in rated range in winter months - the cold just means that the battery always rests at slightly lower voltage which means during OVC readings a slightly lower voltage which will be read tesla doesnt compensate for as much. i think this is responsible for a lot of the yoyoing people see on teslafi etc. I dont have this as there is no winter where i live.

 

[BenKuoT3SLA]

I have a 2021 Mode; 3 Performance and after doing lots of YouTube researching heard not to charge over 70%. I used about 25% battery everyday and been trying to charge every other day to prolong the battery. However would be nice to be able to charge daily after work and not worry if suddenly I need to detour and worry about range.

Will charge everyday using home charger (12A, slow charge to prolong battery) damage or shorten battery life?

 

[Big Earl]

Do whatever suits your needs. The impact to battery longevity will be negligible, if anything.

I’d recommend looking into upgrading to 240 volt charging. In addition to being faster, it’s more efficient. The car’s computers are awake and consuming ~200 watts any time the vehicle is charging. This adds up over time to some pretty substantial energy waste on 120 volts.

I personally charge to 85% every day or every other day, depending on how much I drive. If the battery is below 60%, I’ll usually charge just in case something comes up.

 

[Tam]

...Will charge everyday using home charger (12A, slow charge to prolong battery) damage or shorten battery life?...

No. A trickle charge does not shorten your battery life.

Overheating during the charging is not good for your battery longevity. That's why Tesla has chosen an active cooling system to prolong battery longevity while the older Nissan Leaf was choosing a passive/air cooling system that shortens battery life.

 

[teslhype]

Thanks for the feedback. Can you parse what it means? equal to the original battery "before" the failure occurred? Does it mean 100% or 70%. Before the failure it would be at 70%. As far as your first answer goes, it does not answer my question.

I checked with a Tesla service tech for whats a baseline for the 70%. After 10 mins of back and forth, he finally confessed that the data for battery baseline could not be provided. All he could tell me was that the battery average prior to the failure would be the baseline. But could not provide the window used for calculating the average. Go figure! I am not sure if anyone on the forum has a better insight. Surprising how many of us echo what Tesla puts out there without questioning.

 

[Candleflame]

its beneficial. unless you do it to 100%.

 

[AAKEE]

Since it's recommended to charge max 90% capacity for daily use,
does that mean if my battery is already 10% degraded (from July 2019, 18k miles), then I can charge to 100% and still be at that 90% original capacity?

Simple put: It is the cell voltage that drive the degradagtion and 90% capacity is reached at about 4.10V/cell.
(You cant see the voltages without extra equipment like Scan My Tesla)