Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[MP3Mike]

Is there anyone here that has ever been able to replicate the Tesla quoted range for their Tesla or even gotten close to it?

Edmonds, who doesn't tend to be pro-Tesla, tested actual range, when driven similarly to the EPA test procedures, against the rated EPA range: Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds And Tesla came out the closest to the EPA range of all of the cars they tested.

They haven't tested a 2023, but there is no reason to think that they would perform much different than everything else they tested.

The data for the top, and bottom, 10 stolen from @exxxviii's post in another thread:

Rank	Vehicle	EPA Range	Edmunds Range	Range Precision
1	2021 Tesla Model S Plaid	348 miles	345 miles	0.9%
2	2022 Rivian R1T Launch Edition	314 miles	317 miles	1.0%
3	2021 Tesla Model 3 Long Range	353 miles	345 miles	2.3%
4	2020 Tesla Model S Performance	326 miles	318 miles	2.5%
5	2021 Tesla Model Y Long Range	326 miles	317 miles	2.8%
6	2022 Lucid Air Dream Range	520 miles	505 miles	2.9%
7	2022 Kia EV6 GT-Line dual motor	274 miles	283 miles	3.3%
8	2022 Kia EV6 Wind RWD	310 miles	323 miles	4.2%
9	2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E GT Performance	260 miles	272 miles	4.6%
10	2022 Porsche Taycan GTS	246 miles	259 miles	5.3%
22	2021 Volkswagen ID.4 Pro	260 miles	288 miles	10.8%
29	2021 Volkswagen ID.4 Pro S dual motor	240 miles	272 miles	13.3%
35	2021 Volkswagen ID.4 First Edition	250 miles	287 miles	14.8%
44	2020 Hyundai Ioniq Electric	170 miles	202 miles	18.8%
45	2020 Kia Niro EV	239 miles	285 miles	19.2%
46	2022 Hyundai Kona Electric	258 miles	308 miles	19.4%
47	2022 BMW iX xDrive50 (22-in wheels)	315 miles	377 miles	19.7%
48	2022 Mercedes-Benz AMG EQS 53 4Matic	277 miles	332 miles	19.9%
49	2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS 450+	350 miles	422 miles	20.6%
50	2022 Audi RS e-tron GT	232 miles	285 miles	22.8%
51	2022 Porsche Taycan (20-in wheels)	225 miles	286 miles	27.1%
52	2020 MINI Cooper SE	110 miles	150 miles	36.4%
53	2020 Porsche Taycan 4S (20-in wheels)	203 miles	323 miles	59.1%

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Edmonds, who doesn't tend to be pro-Tesla, tested actual range, when driven similarly to the EPA test procedures, against the rated EPA range: Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds And Tesla came out the closest to the EPA range of all of the cars they tested.

They haven't tested a 2023, but there is no reason to think that they would perform much different than everything else they tested.

The data for the top, and bottom, 10 stolen from @exxxviii's post in another thread:

Rank	Vehicle	EPA Range	Edmunds Range	Range Precision
1	2021 Tesla Model S Plaid	348 miles	345 miles	0.9%
2	2022 Rivian R1T Launch Edition	314 miles	317 miles	1.0%
3	2021 Tesla Model 3 Long Range	353 miles	345 miles	2.3%
4	2020 Tesla Model S Performance	326 miles	318 miles	2.5%
5	2021 Tesla Model Y Long Range	326 miles	317 miles	2.8%
6	2022 Lucid Air Dream Range	520 miles	505 miles	2.9%
7	2022 Kia EV6 GT-Line dual motor	274 miles	283 miles	3.3%
8	2022 Kia EV6 Wind RWD	310 miles	323 miles	4.2%
9	2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E GT Performance	260 miles	272 miles	4.6%
10	2022 Porsche Taycan GTS	246 miles	259 miles	5.3%
22	2021 Volkswagen ID.4 Pro	260 miles	288 miles	10.8%
29	2021 Volkswagen ID.4 Pro S dual motor	240 miles	272 miles	13.3%
35	2021 Volkswagen ID.4 First Edition	250 miles	287 miles	14.8%
44	2020 Hyundai Ioniq Electric	170 miles	202 miles	18.8%
45	2020 Kia Niro EV	239 miles	285 miles	19.2%
46	2022 Hyundai Kona Electric	258 miles	308 miles	19.4%
47	2022 BMW iX xDrive50 (22-in wheels)	315 miles	377 miles	19.7%
48	2022 Mercedes-Benz AMG EQS 53 4Matic	277 miles	332 miles	19.9%
49	2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS 450+	350 miles	422 miles	20.6%
50	2022 Audi RS e-tron GT	232 miles	285 miles	22.8%
51	2022 Porsche Taycan (20-in wheels)	225 miles	286 miles	27.1%
52	2020 MINI Cooper SE	110 miles	150 miles	36.4%
53	2020 Porsche Taycan 4S (20-in wheels)	203 miles	323 miles	59.1%

Most other vehicles did better than EPA with this testing. It’s also not that similar to EPA!!!:

“Edmunds begins with full battery charge and drives an electric vehicle on a mix of city and highway roads (approximately 60% city, 40% highway) until the battery is almost entirely empty. (We target 10 miles of remaining range for safety.) The miles traveled and the indicated remaining range are added together for the Edmunds total tested range figure. We prefer to use a higher percentage of city road driving because we believe it's more representative of typical EV use.”

If they tested according to the EPA procedure they would get a result that roughly matched the EPA rating, of course. It’s not magic.

More city driving advantages cars with worse aero. (Hence many cars less aero than Tesla did better than EPA.)

They did not use any cycle.

They did not use any scalar (this also affects the results and to the extent other manufacturers use 0.7 (some do, some don't), it would advantage those specific manufacturers using 0.7, for this comparison).

These results (as has been discussed elsewhere) do not account for differences in how buffers are treated by different manufacturers. (Should tend to advantage manufacturers with minimal buffers.)

Anyway just shows it is possible (unsurprisingly) to get rated range in a Tesla. Just not for most practical situations where one would care about range. This test would be relevant for an Uber driver in a Tesla, but not for most owners.

 

[KenC]

I’ve never had an EV before and I’m trying to get a better sense of realistic expectations for the “standard” 2023 Model Y, the one with an estimated 279 mile range and AWD. I’ve been searching for real world range figures but most reviews are for the long-range or performance versions of the Model Y.

Can anyone point me towards real range figures for the 279 mile range Model Y, ideally in warm and hot weather?

In this post from @HMHM (Knowing the Real World Driving Range of Your Tesla — No More ‘Range Anxiety’) has the long range Model Y and said he can realistically expect 175-200 miles based on 90% to 20% SoC (70% of the energy capacity). 70% of the EPA estimated 326 miles would be 228.2 miles so 175-200 mile range realistic expectation would mean 76.6% to 87.6% real world range compared to the EPA estimated range. Is this consistent with what people are generally getting?

I also checked Tesla’s Online trip planner and oddly, the 279 mile range Model Y is not on there. The RWD Model 3 is the option with the closest range, at 272 mile range. I entered a trip of 248 miles and the suggested trip would include two stops for charging. I get that it would be a bad idea to drive the car until you are in the low single digits of charge percentage, but I would have expected that a single stop add something like 25% battery charge would have been enough to finish the trip would a reasonable margin- Go Anywhere | Tesla. Is it expected that this is how you’d want to do this trip?

As suggested, use ABRP and test out your proposed drives. Change temps, change speeds, etc.

What you find is, trying to do a trip with fewer stops is not the fastest way. The fastest trips are to drive as fast as you are comfortable with, and charge at the lowest SOCs you are comfortable with. When you realize that, then trying to get max range is not an issue, because that's the slow way to roadtrip. Which is more important? Getting there are quickly as possible, or making fewer stops?

 

[KenC]

Is there anyone here that has ever been able to replicate the Tesla quoted range for their Tesla or even gotten close to it?

IE - replicating the government test criteria, drive at about 50 MPH on mostly flat roads with no climate control with properly inflated tires, and actually be able to drive 2023 330 miles in a Long Range AWD? Etc.

I know if I take almost any ICE and drive at 50 MPH, I will exceed the EPA range. So is the EPA and Tesla "exaggerating" range even at best real-world opportunity? I don't think I have ever seen anyone be able to come close to the EPA range. In which case, in my humble opinion, the range should be lowered by the EPA and Tesla. And before you type it - "just switch to percentage and enjoy" doesn't solve the problem of not being able to drive from Los Angeles to Las Vegas (280 mile distance) without charging -- as Tesla "claimed" we could do based off estimated range of 330 miles per charge.

ABRP says my 3 gets 241Wh/m at 65mph. That's better than the EPA rating for my 2018 LR-AWD. I'd have to drive 65mph. Since I don't, I don't get that.

A couple summers ago, I drove 4400 miles roundtrip from Maine to Denver and back, and I averaged 274Wh/mi on my way home, which was the long way, vs the trip out. I set my car to drive 115% of the speed limit, so my top speeds were 86mph. I wasn't dawdling. I felt 274Wh/mi was pretty good for the speeds I was driving.

I don't think Tesla should change their EPA ratings at all. If EPA wants to change the way they test to better reflect the real-world, then fine, let them do that, but to suggest Tesla, unilaterally, lower their rating, makes no sense.

 

[gtg465x]

ABRP says my 3 gets 241Wh/m at 65mph. That's better than the EPA rating for my 2018 LR-AWD. I'd have to drive 65mph. Since I don't, I don't get that.
View attachment 967458
A couple summers ago, I drove 4400 miles roundtrip from Maine to Denver and back, and I averaged 274Wh/mi on my way home, which was the long way, vs the trip out. I set my car to drive 115% of the speed limit, so my top speeds were 86mph. I wasn't dawdling. I felt 274Wh/mi was pretty good for the speeds I was driving.

I don't think Tesla should change their EPA ratings at all. If EPA wants to change the way they test to better reflect the real-world, then fine, let them do that, but to suggest Tesla, unilaterally, lower their rating, makes no sense.View attachment 967459

ABRP defaulted my Model 3 RWD to 230 Wh/mi at 65 mph, but I kept arriving at charging stops with more SOC than it predicted, so I measured Wh/mi myself at 65 mph on the flattest road I could find and found that I get about 210 Wh/mi at 65 mph. Once I entered that into ABRP, the predictions were pretty much spot on. All this just to say, don’t trust the default Wh/mi set in ABRP. Also, don’t forget to set your degradation appropriately in ABRP because that can affect estimates a lot as well.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Does that stand for A Better Routeplanner? If so is there any way to get ABRP natively on the Tesla display? I'm not sure if Tesla has anything like an app store.

You can use the web browser in the car to browse to the ABRP web site to see your route plan (if you don't have premium connectivity, browse while the car is using wifi and then leave it on the desired page). But that is not very useful to look at while driving.

But then use the car's navigation to point to the next SuperCharger on the ABRP route plan.

ABRP default to choosing the shortest time charging, so it typically plans routes with driving down to about 10% and charging up to 50-60%, since charging gets too slow to be optimal above that. Tesla's route planner seems to favor fewer stops and charging to higher levels, but that ends up with more time spent charging. Fewer charging stops may be less optimal if you need a bladder break before the next charging stop.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Is there anyone here that has ever been able to replicate the Tesla quoted range for their Tesla or even gotten close to it?

In my normal commuting, I generally get better than the rated economy / consumption. This is with 65mph freeway speed, although some roads and traffic situations are slower. Unlike seemingly everyone else on these forums, I am not a lead foot driver.

 

[honor_the_driv]

So does anyone have numbers of how far they can go in the Standard Model Y (279 mile) then? All the reviews and posts I've seem are either from the long range or performance models.

 

[honor_the_driv]

You can use the web browser in the car to browse to the ABRP web site

btw @3sr+buyer I tried ABRP and it gave me a route that made a lot more sense than Tesla trip planner.

 

[KenBlub]

Is there anyone here that has ever been able to replicate the Tesla quoted range for their Tesla or even gotten close to it?

IE - replicating the government test criteria, drive at about 50 MPH on mostly flat roads with no climate control with properly inflated tires, and actually be able to drive 2023 330 miles in a Long Range AWD? Etc.

I know if I take almost any ICE and drive at 50 MPH, I will exceed the EPA range. So is the EPA and Tesla "exaggerating" range even at best real-world opportunity? I don't think I have ever seen anyone be able to come close to the EPA range. In which case, in my humble opinion, the range should be lowered by the EPA and Tesla. And before you type it - "just switch to percentage and enjoy" doesn't solve the problem of not being able to drive from Los Angeles to Las Vegas (280 mile distance) without charging -- as Tesla "claimed" we could do based off estimated range of 330 miles per charge.

I have 5 trips I make every week. One trip is 50 miles round trip with 42 on the highway with speed limits between 60-65. The other 4 are 60 miles round trip with 35 on the highway (60-65) and the rest on country roads with a speed limit of 45-55. I use chill mode, drive the speed limit or limit +5, have AC at 72, turned off sentry and cabin heat protection and my 6000 mile average wh/mi is 206. I do charge my phone and watch while driving. I have a 2023 Model 3 RWD that I love. I haven’t taken it on any extended highway trips and I’m certain I’ll get less mileage

 

[shahryaran]

What is your max traveled distance you have ever achieved on a single charge based on the energy graph?

 

[RedY23]

Do you have the correct wheels chosen in the menu? (I guess yo have, but just to make sure….)

I have the 20” Überturbines chosen and it seems to predict very good on the 20” Überturbines. In winter I have 19” studded tyres, but its the same 235 width, and the same diameter. I do not see a clear difference in consumtion between the tyres so I use the 20” setting for winter as well. I took two screenshots on ”trips” today, as ther was a facebook thread discussion about that function.

First pic, started the nav to the work, in the middle of the run there was traffic that held my speed down sa little, otherwise more or less spot on.
The second pic, on the way home a bit more traffic* but quite ok flow.

View attachment 772611
View attachment 772612

*) A bit more traffic = with our norms up here. Not-hillbillies would say ”didnt see a single car”

Just thought id share this. Had my car since February 23. Charge to 85%

MYP23 from Feb23:
I drove 12752 Miles and Charged 4828kwh. 37.9 Kw/100 miles
Seems like i am using quite a bit of energy.

Also at 100% I am getting a 185 mile range. Originally306. 93% of original range.
Seems thats quite a bit of range loss in less than a year.

Id like to think am the avg driver. Mix of suburbia driving. Hwy and city.

 

[shahryaran]

Just thought id share this. Had my car since February 23. Charge to 85%

MYP23 from Feb23:
I drove 12752 Miles and Charged 4828kwh. 37.9 Kw/100 miles
Seems like i am using quite a bit of energy.

Also at 100% I am getting a 185 mile range. Originally306. 93% of original range.
Seems thats quite a bit of range loss in less than a year.

Id like to think am the avg driver. Mix of suburbia driving. Hwy and city.

I can't seem to get 200 miles distance traveled on 80% charge

 

[RedY23]

I can't seem to get 200 miles distance traveled on 80% charge

I messed up. Its 285 Miles

 

[RedY23]

I messed up. Its 285 Miles

Lets start over:


285 mile range when it shows 100%. I expect some loss of range but the car is less than a year old.

I also redid the energy calculation based on incar charge data later today and the numbers were better for some reason
Now 12801 miles and 3799kWh or about 29.7 kW/100 miles.

 

[shahryaran]

What is your max traveled distance you have ever achieved on a single charge based on the energy graph?

What's funny?

 

[Apprunner]

Lets start over:


285 mile range when it shows 100%. I expect some loss of range but the car is less than a year old.

I also redid the energy calculation based on incar charge data later today and the numbers were better for some reason
Now 12801 miles and 3799kWh or about 29.7 kW/100 miles.

285/315 = 90% or 10% degradation. If you go to 5% or less and hold it there for a couple hours and then charge to 100% and let it top charge, you should get a more updated BMS reading (may not change much).

My M3P is over 4 years old and originally came with 310 miles of range. I get an indicated 285 miles at 100% charge or about 8% degradation. I've been at this for the last 2 years though without much change so hopefully, you are the same. I only charge to 55% most of the time though.

 

[DrChaos]

Lets start over:


285 mile range when it shows 100%. I expect some loss of range but the car is less than a year old.

I also redid the energy calculation based on incar charge data later today and the numbers were better for some reason
Now 12801 miles and 3799kWh or about 29.7 kW/100 miles.

The range loss from calendar degradation is highest the first year and slows down after that. Its 303 miles new. 285 is slightly higher degradation that I would expect (and there is some inaccuracy in the BMS) but not a sign of any obvious major defect.

Model Y P is not so efficient, being a Y (vs 3--this is the 3 forum) and especially a P with inefficient wheels and tires. So 29.7 kW/100 miles is slightly better than EPA efficiency (which does include charging losses of 5% or so and your measurement doesn't) of 30 kWh/100 mi.

From the numbers you give there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with your car. If you need range, switch wheels and tires to something more efficient.

 

[shahryaran]

285/315 = 90% or 10% degradation. If you go to 5% or less and hold it there for a couple hours and then charge to 100% and let it top charge, you should get a more updated BMS reading (may not change much).

My M3P is over 4 years old and originally came with 310 miles of range. I get an indicated 285 miles at 100% charge or about 8% degradation. I've been at this for the last 2 years though without much change so hopefully, you are the same. I only charge to 55% most of the time though.

I'm not taking about EPA, i'm taking about distance traveled

 

[Apprunner]

I'm not taking about EPA, i'm taking about distance traveled

I was talking about RedY23's degradation. You have to give us more information about your car for us to comment on your car. What version of the Model 3 do you have? Wheel size, type of tire, average speed on highway, etc...