Range on midrange reduced to 219 miles

[St☰v☰]

The warranty clearly states that they only warranty 70% of the stated range.

And where is this written that I'm going to lose 30% of my battery's capacity/life over 10 months of ownership? Because I read that the 70% was over the 8 year 120k period, not 10 months.

Model 3 and Model Y Long Range or Performance - 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

 

[MP3Mike]

And where is this written that I'm going to lose 30% of my battery's capacity/life over 10 months of ownership? Because I read that the 70% was over the 8 year 120k period, not 10 months.

Model 3 and Model Y Long Range or Performance - 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

Where is it written that the loss is guaranteed to be gradual and even over time/mileage? Up until you lose the 31st percent you are within the warranty specs, regardless of time/mileage. They are guaranteeing a capacity retention at the end of the warranty period.

​

You could lose 29% in 7.9 years or 7.9 days and still be within the warranty. You could lose ~0.3%/month over the 8 years or you could lose ~29% on day 2 and hold that level for 8 years and still be OK.

 

[St☰v☰]

Where is it written that the loss is guaranteed to be gradual and even over time/mileage? Up until you lose the 31st percent you are within the warranty specs, regardless of time/mileage. They are guaranteeing a capacity retention at the end of the warranty period.

​

You could lose 29% in 7.9 years or 7.9 days and still be within the warranty. You could lose ~0.3%/month over the 8 years or you could lose ~29% on day 2 and hold that level for 8 years and still be OK.

 

[hugh_jassol]

View attachment 516534

All maturity aside.... he is correct. All they warranty is that it won't drop below 70% within that 8 years.

Not I suspect that if in 10 months you were at 20% there's something actually wrong with your pack and they would be able to diagnose that if and they would replace it anyway as goodwill.

But the only agreement you have is what was in writing at the time you signed the purchase agreement.

 

[smashcz]

You could lose 29% in 7.9 years or 7.9 days and still be within the warranty. You could lose ~0.3%/month over the 8 years or you could lose ~29% on day 2 and hold that level for 8 years and still be OK.

What is your miles at 100% ?

 

[Toysla]

70% out of 310 is 217...8 years.
And your range didn't drop, more likely a miss-calibration of the BMS. This topic has been beaten to death. Ask Tesla to reset your BMS or don't charge daily and don't keep the car plugged in all the time and don't just top up between 60-90%.

Thanks. I'll give that a try and over time, see what happens.

 

[antoinearnau]

Thanks. I'll give that a try and over time, see what happens.

And of course what you told not to do is exactely what the car manual recommends you to do !

 

[TimothyHW3]

And of course what you told not to do is exactely what the car manual recommends you to do !

This topic has also been beaten to death. The manual is a verbatim copy paste of the Model S/X. Model 3 has a totally new cell technology and BMS - maybe while being busy building the car in a tent they weren't that interested in looking over the manual...

Many reports here suggest that there is something about the new batteries and BMS that doesn't like topping up 70%-90%, 50%-80% daily all the time and the only remedy has been to go low and high more often and/or reset the BMS values (and not continue to top 70%-90%). Even going 20%-60% seems to be better for the BMS than keeping it high - this all from the data we can gather.

Plus, what the manual suggests is not completely unfounded - they are just covering their asses in case someone leaves the car for 3 weeks unplugged with sentry on (like many people still do!) and then wonders why his car is dead in about 5 days (even if sentry disables itself at 20%, the car will still drain the 20% pretty quickly if you have things like car alarm on or you check up on the car very often)...

 

[antoinearnau]

My car is consistently showing a 5% degradation after 14 months whether I deep cycle it during a road trip or plug it back in after my 40 km commute, going from 80% to 68% and back to 80%.

 

[theRed]

I'm curious if anyone has any further information on the degradation of Mid-Range batteries. I have a Model 3 Mid-Range delivered March 2019. For the first 6-8 months of ownership my car displayed ~260 miles at 100% charge, then seemingly overnight the estimated range at 100% dropped to 250. Now after 1 year of ownership the car shows 217 miles at 90% charge which extrapolated to 100% would be ~242 miles. I have only charged to 100% maybe 5 times over the last year. I charge daily at work up to 90%, the car sits overnight at 80%.
Is this worth elevating to Tesla? I've noticed many people have posted similar experiences, has anyone received closure on this "issue"?
Thanks for the input.

 

[theRed]

Many reports here suggest that there is something about the new batteries and BMS that doesn't like topping up 70%-90%, 50%-80% daily all the time and the only remedy has been to go low and high more often and/or reset the BMS values (and not continue to top 70%-90%). Even going 20%-60% seems to be better for the BMS than keeping it high - this all from the data we can gather.
[/QUOTE]
This sounds exactly like my charging habits, wondering if there is something to this.

 

[Toppatop55]

Many reports here suggest that there is something about the new batteries and BMS that doesn't like topping up 70%-90%, 50%-80% daily all the time and the only remedy has been to go low and high more often and/or reset the BMS values (and not continue to top 70%-90%). Even going 20%-60% seems to be better for the BMS than keeping it high - this all from the data we can gather.

This sounds exactly like my charging habits, wondering if there is something to this.[/QUOTE]
wow great info in fact the best ive seen yet. this would explain my issue as I only drib went miles a day and keep my charge level between 70%-90%....Thanks

 

[TimothyHW3]

wow great info in fact the best ive seen yet. this would explain my issue as I only drib went miles a day and keep my charge level between 70%-90%....Thanks

What is your 100% estimate or better what is your 100% period when you charge to 100% and if you didn't please do and report - also exact model (Mid range, LR, RWD, AWD, SR+ etc.) and year made.

 

[theRed]

What is your 100% estimate or better what is your 100% period when you charge to 100% and if you didn't please do and report - also exact model (Mid range, LR, RWD, AWD, SR+ etc.) and year made.

Sorry for my ignorance, can you explain what you mean by "100% period when you charge to 100%"?

 

[Toppatop55]

What is your 100% estimate or better what is your 100% period when you charge to 100% and if you didn't please do and report - also exact model (Mid range, LR, RWD, AWD, SR+ etc.) and year made.

100% charge is 286
90% charge is 257
2019 July built August delivery
Model 3 long range dual motor
Promised range of 310 at purchase

 

[rincewind]

100% charge is 309.5 after 4.5k miles
M3P 2019

 

[Toppatop55]

What is your 100% estimate or better what is your 100% period when you charge to 100% and if you didn't please do and report - also exact model (Mid range, LR, RWD, AWD, SR+ etc.) and year made.

100% charge is 309.5 after 4.5k miles
M3P 2019

what is your charging regiment like and daily miles driven

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You guys with high capacity loss can just precisely measure your charging time from 10% to 90% (and measure exactly how many miles are added), and it will tell you your capacity. (You'll need to add the buffer back in of course.) Or you can just use your rated miles at 100%, which also tells you your capacity to very high accuracy (I haven't ever seen a significant error - meaning off by more than 3-4 miles - though presumably they occasionally happen).

You need:
1) Warm battery, warm conditions, so no power to warming the battery
2) Voltage of charging apparatus when under load.
3) Current draw during the charge.
4) Exact time of the charge (to nearest minute).
5) Exact starting rated miles and exact ending rated miles

All of this data has to be from the car, of course; TeslaFi is not useful for this.

Then you can use the known efficiency of the charger (about 89% at 240V/32A with no charge taper, and make adjustments to other charging rates using a ~250W overhead to make the adjustment - a trivial calculation) to calculate how much useful energy is available in your battery. 10% to 90% seems like a good range to use.

And you can compare to others, if you'd like.

In the end it's going to tell you what you already know - your rated miles being lower means your useful capacity is lower. Whether that can be improved by charging to a high level to let some rebalancing take place, who knows - but based on what I read here and my own experience, any rebalancing will only have a very small effect - perhaps 1-2 miles.

 

[Toppatop55]

You guys with high capacity loss can just precisely measure your charging time from 10% to 90% (and measure exactly how many miles are added), and it will tell you your capacity. (You'll need to add the buffer back in of course.) Or you can just use your rated miles at 100%, which also tells you your capacity to very high accuracy (I haven't ever seen a significant error - meaning off by more than 3-4 miles - though presumably they occasionally happen).

You need:
1) Warm battery, warm conditions, so no power to warming the battery
2) Voltage of charging apparatus when under load.
3) Current draw during the charge.
4) Exact time of the charge (to nearest minute).
5) Exact starting rated miles and exact ending rated miles

All of this data has to be from the car, of course; TeslaFi is not useful for this.

Then you can use the known efficiency of the charger (about 89% at 240V/32A with no charge taper, and make adjustments to other charging rates using a ~250W overhead to make the adjustment - a trivial calculation) to calculate how much useful energy is available in your battery. 10% to 90% seems like a good range to use.

And you can compare to others, if you'd like.

In the end it's going to tell you what you already know - your rated miles being lower means your useful capacity is lower. Whether that can be improved by charging to a high level to let some rebalancing take place, who knows - but based on what I read here and my own experience, any rebalancing will only have a very small effect - perhaps 1-2 miles.

Lmao...thanks for the info but this is the exact thing many of us gripe about. I shouldn't have t be a battery chemist just to be able to determine if Tesla sold me a car with a defective battery. As an end user, essential information on such a highly sophisticated vehicle should be easy to comprehend and digest.

 

[theRed]

Model 3 Mid Range
Built: Feb. 2019
80% charge = 197 miles indicated range
90% charge = 217 miles indicated range
100% charge = 242 miles (shown on app slider)