Range on midrange reduced to 219 miles

[VQTRVA]

Hi, the estimated range on my midrange model 3 has dropped to 219 miles at 100% charge. Average wh/mi since taking delivery has been 240. 7800 miles on the odometer since 11/2018. Brought this issue up during multiple service visits and got the same answer over and over again: it's just an estimate not reflective of everyday real-world use, better to use the battery percentage instead, drop the charge to 20% then charge up to 100% to reset the BMS, etc. I've done the re-calibration procedure repeatedly and it never increased past 219 miles. What gives? I don't drive the car aggressively and my average wh/mi seems to be at the rated value. The service techs claim that they've remotely checked on my battery health and there's no issues with the cells, and no software limitations effectively limiting me to SR range. Has anyone experienced this much of a drop from the advertised range? Should I press Tesla to change out my battery pack?

IMO You need to go far deeper below 20% & closer to 0% to get the BMS to knock itself loose.
See below thread posted by jjrandorin.
We keep referencing to this & if it doesn't work then I would be suspicious of a software induced range reduction not a battery pack malfunction.

OP,

Read this thread:

Battery Degradation; Sailing & Touching a Shore

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You need to go far deeper below 20% & closer to 0% to get the BMS to knock itself loose.
See below thread posted by jjrandorin.

@futron can try it, take it to 5-10%, but I would happily take a gentlemen’s bet that it will do zippo in this case. Worth a shot I suppose because we’ll have a datapoint that it makes zero difference.

In this case, it appears to think (if the actual full capacity was 264 miles) that ~85 rated miles is actually ~44rmi. To me that seems unlikely.

For whatever reason Tesla is either being super conservative on some batteries, or their BMS doesn’t deal well with some cells’ characteristics. Or something. Could just be software issues unrelated to anything that is specifically being detected, I suppose, too.

In this case since it has apparently persisted for a while it could just be a terrible battery, too.

 

[BAven8068]

I have seen a large drop in range over the course of 11,000 miles on my DEC 2018 Mid Range also, although not as much as yours.

At its best back in March it was showing 263 today it’s showing 250. I also have a 2017 Model X with 42,000 miles and it has lost only 2 miles over its lifetime.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Thanks for the data.

I specifically used "rated miles used" not actual miles driven. So the above numbers are Wh/rated_mi, which should be the "constant".

It's a little hard to determine what TeslaFi is doing, but the consistency of the data suggest that they are avoiding the counting of vampire drain, and are only counting use while driving, so it's probably good data. However, I will say I don't quite 100% trust the reported TeslaFi numbers for "reasons." It can be measured directly in any case.

Anyway, your 216 Wh/rmi constant seems quite reasonable, and it is close, as it is in the middle of the SR+ 209Wh/rmi, and LR RWD ~223Wh/rmi

From several sources (albeit unofficial), the Mid-Range is supposed to have a 62 kWh battery

The EPA, which is the most reliable source, says it is 63.8kWh usable capacity. (Page 23 or so.)

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=46584&flag=1

Note this is done by driving until the wheels stop turning (battery dead, vehicle shutdown).

Finally if you take the Tesla rated range of 264 mi and the 62 kWh batt pack, then you should see the constant be 235 Wh/mi

You have to be careful. Tesla uses an "out" Wh/rmi and an "in" Wh/rmi constant. Charging and discharge are counted differently for "reasons."

AWD: 245iWh/rmi, 234oWh/rmi
LR RWD: 234iWh/rmi, 223oWh/rmi
MR RWD: 225 iWh/rmi, 216oWh/rmi (These are estimates and I am not sure about the TeslaFi data...230/219 might be more reasonable)
SR+: 219iWh/rmi, 209.16oWh/rmi

I would guess your "iWh/rmi" constant for the MR is ~230Wh/rmi - this can be measured directly based on looking at both kWh & miles added during a long charging event - or by using API logging carefully.

• Range: 264 vs 286 mi (I believe this has to be 264 since that is what was advertised as the EPA rated range)

• Batt Capacity: 62 vs 57 kWh

• Wh/mi "constant" of 217 vs 235

There is a reserve, so the way you can align with the EPA numbers is by positing a ~2kWh reserve, and using the input charging constant, then you see:

264rmi * 225iWh/rmi = 59.4ikWh (or just 59.4kWh)

That actually seems a bit low to me. I would expect the numbers might be more like 230iWh/rmi / 219oWh/rmi

That would give 264rmi * 230iWh/rmi = 60.7ikWh

So, that means that you have 60.7kWh available, with a ~3kWh reserve below 0 rated miles, to get to the full 63.8kWh. (That actually seems a bit large for a reserve; it appears to "usually" be 2kWh.)

I don't recommend finding out how large this reserve really is, though. Sometimes it seems to not exist...

my Monroney sticker says 27 kWh per 100 mi (or 270 Wh/mi), which would put the battery about 71 kWh, which can't possibly be true...

The Monroney sticker includes AC charging losses & overhead. The EPA document says the recharge event took 72.4kWh, so that would be 72.4kWh/264mi = 27.4kWh/100mi.


The vehicle mentioned by the OP seems to have a usable capacity of:

219rmi * 230Wh/rmi + 3kWh = 53.4kWh. So they've "lost" 10kWh of useful capacity. The question will be whether it will return with future software changes.

 

[hugh_jassol]

It's a little hard to determine what TeslaFi is doing, but the consistency of the data suggest that they are avoiding the counting of vampire drain, and are only counting use while driving, so it's probably good data. However, I will say I don't quite 100% trust the reported TeslaFi numbers for "reasons." It can be measured directly in any case.

Anyway, your 216 Wh/rmi constant seems quite reasonable, and it is close, as it is in the middle of the SR+ 209Wh/rmi, and LR RWD ~223Wh/rmi

Teslalfi is simply querying the API to get the car's reported rated range at the beginning and end of a drive event, so I would think this is accurate.

I would guess your "iWh/rmi" constant for the MR is ~225Wh/rmi - this can be measured directly based on looking at kWh/ miles added during a long charging event - or by using API logging carefully.

So here's some data from my longest charge in Aug:

• Wall energy used: 32.2 kWh (for this I think they just integrate V*A*time in 1 min steps)
• Energy Added: 30.49 kWh (I assume this is the "in" kWh you are referring to and I believe is just "charge_energy_added" from the API)
• Rated Miles Added: 128.29

In this case 30.49 kWh / 128.29 mi = 237 "in" kWh / mi. However, if I look at ALL of my charges that were longer than 1h for the month of August, I get an average of 228 Wh/mi with a range from 207 - 272. Mast days, it goes on the charger at ~65% and it's set to stop at 80% - so maybe that factors in in some way.

 

[gecko10x]

I have seen a large drop in range over the course of 11,000 miles on my DEC 2018 Mid Range also, although not as much as yours.

At its best back in March it was showing 263 today it’s showing 250. I also have a 2017 Model X with 42,000 miles and it has lost only 2 miles over its lifetime.

View attachment 449483

Your graph is very similar to mine. In 6700 miles since mid December, I'm down to ~250 as well.

 

[CSFTN]

i have a midrange also; nov 2018 build, 11,000 miles. i have not re calibrated on purpose yet , but it seems a 100% charge gets me in the mid 250's range. truthfully , i'm not thrilled with that but then i drive the car and forget it all , lol

anyway, 219 for midrange is totally not right and i'd insist on a service appointment. you should push this while under warranty.

battery warranty is 8 years

 

[duanra]

Just a question.
When you extrapolate from let's say 70 or 80%, is the number consistent with what you have at 100% eg 250 miles ?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Teslalfi is simply querying the API to get the car's reported rated range at the beginning and end of a drive event, so I would think this is accurate.

Yeah, there is just a thread around here with “odd” numbers reported for the output kWh (I think) reporter by TeslaFi. I agree it should be accurate if it reports accurately. But I would just measure myself and compare vs. the API - there is a thread around here with @darth_vad3r doing that for an SR+

So here's some data from my longest charge in Aug:

• Wall energy used: 32.2 kWh (for this I think they just integrate V*A*time in 1 min steps)
• Energy Added: 30.49 kWh (I assume this is the "in" kWh you are referring to and I believe is just "charge_energy_added" from the API)
• Rated Miles Added: 128.29

Yes, but TeslaFi would not be able to distinguish (I think) whether the AC or something was running during the charge. There is ambiguity, so I trust your long-term average a bit more.

In any case, this input constant is easy to calculate reasonably accurately, just swapping quickly between kWh/mi, towards the end of a long uninterrupted charge, and looking at the charging screen. It can also be seen in Supercharger data based on @Zoomit’s derived numbers based on screen captures I think...though not as sure about the exact correct method there - and not sure how overhead plays in there.

 

[Steve Martin]

254 miles at 100% for me extrapolating from 90% after just under 11,000 miles.

 

[flybuzz]

Yeah that's ****ed up. I have midrange and pretty pissed off at my 5% loss, I can't imagine to be in your shoes. I don't think you mentioned but what was the total rated miles when you first picked up the car? Was it close to 264 miles? I would do the run down to 10% and charge to 100% 3 times to see if it helps. I saw that somewhere before. I did it once, but didn't change a thing. If that doesn't help and tesla still wouldn't budge, I would purposely charge it to 100% everyday until battery degrade to less than 70% to force them to do something. That's just BS.

 

[futron]

So this morning after charging the battery from 5% to 100%, the range now shows 216 miles. I have no clue what's going on, but the Tesla rep that I've been in contact with continues to make excuses including asserting that driving behaviors influence the range, etc (which as I understand it is NOT true and, even if it were, I'm fairly confident that I fall in the middle of the bell-shaped curve of Tesla drivers). Hopefully the service center next week will stop trying to spoonfeed this crap.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

IMO You need to go far deeper below 20% & closer to 0% to get the BMS to knock itself loose.
See below thread posted by jjrandorin.

@futron can try it, take it to 5-10%, but I would happily take a gentlemen’s bet that it will do zippo in this case. Worth a shot I suppose because we’ll have a datapoint that it makes zero difference.

So this morning after charging the battery from 5% to 100%, the range now shows 216 miles.

Yes, no surprises here. I think you likely have a software issue (or a battery issue, less likely). As discussed above, you've lost about 10kWh of capacity. Thanks for following up with the experiment - I definitely wouldn't stress your battery anymore (with discharges to 5% or charges to 100%, unless that is required for your use scenario) at this point; it seems to be struggling enough as it is.

Your battery is truly like Low Energy Jeb.

Anyway, if you would like to calculate your Wh/rmi, just to be sure it aligns...and your battery is truly low energy....you can just record a long trip, multiply (Wh/mi * mi traveled ) / (Rated Miles Delta) Needs to be a long trip to ensure you don't encounter any error, but you should end up with something like 219-224Wh/rmi for an MR, as discussed above. If it ends up a lot higher (I think this is very unlikely), it could be that your Wh/rmi is just higher than everyone else who has an MR (so you'd need fewer rmi for the same energy - extremely unlikely to be the issue though).

 

[hugh_jassol]

So this morning after charging the battery from 5% to 100%, the range now shows 216 miles. I have no clue what's going on, but the Tesla rep that I've been in contact with continues to make excuses including asserting that driving behaviors influence the range, etc (which as I understand it is NOT true and, even if it were, I'm fairly confident that I fall in the middle of the bell-shaped curve of Tesla drivers). Hopefully the service center next week will stop trying to spoonfeed this crap.

I guess the good news is, when it hits 184, you qualify for a new batt (I know, not helpful)

 

[Wennfred]

Unfortunately I don't have a third party tracker to delineate when the loss of range occurred, but at delivery it was showing 260 miles. Spoke to Tesla yesterday and got another service appointment; they promised an "engineer" would look at the car.

From 260 to 219 is a major drop indicating a problem, YouTuber Kim of LikeTesla had a similar problem, she took it in and they reflashed and had it recalibrated and had the correct mile range restored.

Fred

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

From 260 to 219 is a major drop indicating a problem, YouTuber Kim of LikeTesla had a similar problem, she took it in and they reflashed and had it recalibrated and had the correct mile range restored.

Fred

I agree with this. There is zero evidence that the Tesla rep knows anything about the battery (the party line being provided to you is quite common). Best of luck with the service center next week. Unlike the people going to the service center with a few miles missing, I think you have a legitimate problem that needs to be looked at. Hopefully it is just software, and they can resolve it.

 

[Wennfred]

Take a look at this video, good info here from Kim

 

[futron]

So just now I got a notification on the screen stating "Battery cannot charge to 100%. Contact Tesla Service" I emailed Tesla this AM about escalating the issue to executive management. I wonder if they did some more remote diagnostics and found some battery wiring fault?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So just now I got a notification on the screen stating "Battery cannot charge to 100%. Contact Tesla Service" I emailed Tesla this AM about escalating the issue to executive management. I wonder if they did some more remote diagnostics and found some battery wiring fault?

Yeah, I'm not surprised. Definitely possible your email prompted some diagnostics. Your battery definitely seemed defective - all the reported evidence made that pretty clear. Looks like you'll be getting a new one! The symptoms you're observing are less severe but similar to other battery failures that have been reported here.

You never know, maybe they'll be able to set something right with a really hard reset or something - do let us know what happens.

 

[futron]

Now I'm completely unable to charge. I guess either it's coincidence that the battery fault has come to a head, or someone remotely shut down my ability to charge due to safety concerns? Anyways, I called Tesla and they offered to tow my car to the service center on Monday. We'll see how it goes.