[Rant] locals clogging the Highland Park, IL supercharger

[jeffro01]

I said it in a different thread, I'll say it again here. How about charging $10 for access to the Supercharger network for the next 24 hours? Bad for locals, good for long distance where you'll hit 2-4 SCs in a trip. Still super cheap for long distance.

Because when I bought my car I was told I'd get free supercharging for life, that's why. I am not going to pay a single dime additional for supercharger access as it was included with the price of my car. I don't think you'll find much support from ownership suggesting that anyone should ever have to pay for supercharger access if they already paid for it via the cost being built into their car or paid for separately as the S60 owners have.

Jeff

 

[dsm363]

This issue has already been covered multiple times. Tesla indicated from the beginning he network was meant for long distance travel but they also talked about 'free for life'. If it becomes enough of a problem I don't think people would mind Tesla charging locals abusing their local Supercharger when they could charge at home. The implementation would be tricky though so don't think they'll do it anytime soon.

 

[ohmman]

Because when I bought my car I was told I'd get free supercharging for life, that's why. I am not going to pay a single dime additional for supercharger access as it was included with the price of my car. I don't think you'll find much support from ownership suggesting that anyone should ever have to pay for supercharger access if they already paid for it via the cost being built into their car or paid for separately as the S60 owners have.

When I think of most of these suggestions, I imagine them being for future sales. Changing the game for existing owners would indeed be unfair. At the same time, if the situation was that I could either take my free/paid for supercharging with a good potential for a long wait, or change the policy to a $10 fee and eliminate the wait - I'd jump on the $10. My time is worth more than that.

 

[AWDtsla]

I said it in a different thread, I'll say it again here. How about charging $10 for access to the Supercharger network for the next 24 hours? Bad for locals, good for long distance where you'll hit 2-4 SCs in a trip. Still super cheap for long distance.

That's super regressive. So someone that has a short stop pays a huge amount per kWh, and a hog gets under market price?

It would encourage more hogging. "I paid $10 so I'm getting my money's worth"

 

[stopcrazypp]

I said it in a different thread, I'll say it again here. How about charging $10 for access to the Supercharger network for the next 24 hours? Bad for locals, good for long distance where you'll hit 2-4 SCs in a trip. Still super cheap for long distance.

Bad idea because it breaks the free supercharger promise. I know others suggest grandfathering, but I think it makes more sense to have a consistent policy that can address the issue while keeping the "free long distance" promise. There are plenty of other schemes that can achieve this.

 

[woof]

This was originally suggested only as Supercharging pricing for Model 3, not Model S/X. No $2000 up front, or "built-in", a simple daily plan that keeps long distance travel cheaper than ICE, but discourages daily local supercharger usage.

Because when I bought my car I was told I'd get free supercharging for life, that's why.

Well, the rest of us know it was free long distance travel that was offered...but I'm not going to open up that can of worms again.

The point of the fee is to discourage daily local charging, which I'll note is NOT long distance travel. And it's only for Model 3, so you can put down your pitchfork.

Bad idea because it breaks the free supercharger promise. I know others suggest grandfathering, but I think it makes more sense to have a consistent policy that can address the issue while keeping the "free long distance" promise. There are plenty of other schemes that can achieve this.

Please present some of the other schemes.

 

[tomas]

Ok. Here's my scheme. If an owner is abusing, 5 abused owners can vote them off the island. You are only screwing your brothers and sisters, so stop it.

 

[Uncle Paul]

If local chargers would simply time their supercharging to non busy times of the day, this would all become a non issue.

If you are local, and arrive at a time that many of the stalls are occupied, consider coming back at another time.

 

[ohmman]

5 abused owners can vote them off the island

I don't know why this comment made me think of it, but we really should have a TMC Cannonball Run.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Please present some of the other schemes.

My personal suggestion is a rebranding of the worse affected stations (so they are not longer "supercharger" stations) and making them paid. "Superchargers" will remain free and will only located in long distance routes (as others have mentioned was the original plan). The issues are mainly happening because superchargers are being located in populated areas where people live nearby and might not have home charging.

Others have suggested throttling (multiple schemes for this, can be based on distance, proximity of home to station, being identified as an "abuser" etc).

These schemes may not necessarily be flawless, but it keeps the "free supercharging" promise indefinitely.

Grandfathering does not solve the problem because this is already happening. Isolating it to Model 3 especially does not solve the problem because the current incidents already demonstrates Model S/X owners are willing to "abuse" the stations despite assumed financial status suggesting otherwise. When these vehicles start hitting the used market, the financial argument will go out the window (we are getting there already with CPO Model S hitting the $55k mark; a well optioned Model 3 will easily exceed this).

 

[MikeL]

I could just as easily be doing some "long distance travel" thru Redondo Beach - very populated - as thru Lusk Wyoming -not so much

 

[stopcrazypp]

I could just as easily be doing some "long distance travel" thru Redondo Beach - very populated - as thru Lusk Wyoming -not so much

For that particular one, there are enough stations around that you can pick the least popular station(s) to keep as a supercharger station and then convert the rest to paid.

There will definitely be cases where on a long distance trip it makes sense to charge in a populated area. However, I see that no different than treating that case like what already happens with CHAdeMO stations (there are definitely plenty of long distance routes where it makes sense to use the CHAdeMO adapter or even where that is the only way to make the trip). When Tesla promised free long distance travel, they didn't promise they would cover every possible route.

 

[Nikxice]

Assuming Tesla meets their predicted 500K production rate in 2020 and beyond, other Supercharging options are likely to develop. Without a dramatic change in current usage policy, increasing the density of SC sites seems inevitable. Tesla has started to wade into the waters of partnering with other businesses to sponsor Superchargers. Perhaps this effort can eventually evolve into a deal with one or more large national chains that could service those legitimately needing to charge and also the cheapskates. Maybe a Sam's Club or Costco? Okay, a small membership fee to shop, but Supercharging could remain free. Exploring the potential for this type of energy sponsorship is ripe for opportunity, and has answers for WIIFM skeptics.

 

[electracity]

I think S/X may always be free, but with an eye on livery driver behavior.
I think 3/Y will come with a limited number of free charging hours per year. This allows most Model 3 buyer into the free supercharger club, yet doesn't attract livery drivers and others interested in free "gas" for life.
Once the EV market really begins to grow, free seems to be a drag on building out a robust charging network.

 

[TexasEV]

The issues are mainly happening because superchargers are being located in populated areas where people live nearby and might not have home charging.

No, most of the Tesla owners who live nearby do have home charging, at least in the U.S. anyway. They're just lured by the availability of free charging.

 

[Cottonwood]

I will repeat my suggestion for progressive billing:

Here is a very simple solution, that I propose for progressive billing:

• Give owners, many, multiple educational warnings. Accept special situations, and give two more warnings before starting to bill.
• First hour free, even after going to Bill mode.
• Second hour $5.
• Third hour and beyond, $50 per hour.

That gives many chances and even when an owner has been put in the "Bill" mode, the first hour is free and the second hour reasonable. Once in the "Bill" mode, going into the second hour is annoying, and going into the third hour and beyond will get most folks attention.

and improve it some:

• First hour — free.
• Second hour — $0.10 per minute. That is $6 per hour, but billed by the minute to keep gentle pressure on for the whole second hour.
• Third hour and on — $1 per minute. This is $60 per hour, but billed by the minute to keep very firm pressure on abusing owners to move their cars.

BTW, it would be fine with me if these rates were imposed on all owners, but politically, this progressive billing for charging is probably best only imposed on abusers, and/or new buyers.

I've done a lot of Supercharging, about 4,000 miles of 14,000 in the last year on my P85D. This proposed, progressive billing for Supercharging would have cost me nothing, but would cost abusers a lot.

 

[kort677]

No, most of the Tesla owners who live nearby do have home charging, at least in the U.S. anyway. They're just lured by the availability of free charging.

I question your assessment, and I haven't any source of data, but I believe that a good many tesla owners in the more urban areas and are using the SCs as their primary source of charging live in apartments and condos where they have no ability to charge at home. when I had a second home I was only able to charge at 110 at that house so if was taking a longer drive it required a stop at a SC to top off.

 

[dhanson865]

I will repeat my suggestion for progressive billing:



and improve it some:

• First hour — free.
• Second hour — $0.10 per minute. That is $6 per hour, but billed by the minute to keep gentle pressure on for the whole second hour.
• Third hour and on — $1 per minute. This is $60 per hour, but billed by the minute to keep very firm pressure on abusing owners to move their cars.

BTW, it would be fine with me if these rates were imposed on all owners, but politically, this progressive billing for charging is probably best only imposed on abusers, and/or new buyers.

I've done a lot of Supercharging, about 4,000 miles of 14,000 in the last year on my P85D. This proposed, progressive billing for Supercharging would have cost me nothing, but would cost abusers a lot.

First hour ever, for the life of the car? (no point, surely not what you meant)
First hour per charging session? (can be gamed by unplugging, moving to another spot replugging)
First hour per 12 hour period?
First hour per day?
First hour per week?
First hour per month?

Gotta talk about the period or that is pretty ambiguous.

and the longer the period the more it penalizes road trips and can be abused by local charging types.

 

[Cottonwood]

First hour ever, for the life of the car? (no point, surely not what you meant)
First hour per charging session? (can be gamed by unplugging, moving to another spot replugging)
First hour per day?
First hour per week?
First hour per month?

Gotta talk about the period or that is pretty ambiguous.

Sorry, all my numbers are per session. Perhaps with a detector for quick disconnect/reconnects that put those together as a virtual single session for billing.

 

[KJD]

I will repeat my suggestion for progressive billing:
and improve it some:

• First hour — free.
• Second hour — $0.10 per minute. That is $6 per hour, but billed by the minute to keep gentle pressure on for the whole second hour.
• Third hour and on — $1 per minute. This is $60 per hour, but billed by the minute to keep very firm pressure on abusing owners to move their cars.

BTW, it would be fine with me if these rates were imposed on all owners, but politically, this progressive billing for charging is probably best only imposed on abusers, and/or new buyers.
I've done a lot of Supercharging, about 4,000 miles of 14,000 in the last year on my P85D. This proposed, progressive billing for Supercharging would have cost me nothing, but would cost abusers a lot.

Sounds good to me.

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