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Raven LR vs LR Plus range issue: car value
- Thread starter Lorians
- Start date
Good morning Battpower!
Happy you support this discussion and generally agree on your view of the actual range of our cars.
In facts, just for the sake of sharing a real life case, I have a pretty standard one for a Switzerland to italy trip of 560 km. (500km. highway and 60km. hillside) which shows me that, even taking into account all variables i.e: outside temp., average speed, driving style, gradient, regen impact, heating/hvac, AP, etc..) I’ve never been able to cover it with 1 single charge, driving at ~90-100km/h total average speed with ~20 degrees celsius ouside temperature, but always requires at least ~20 min. SC stop to make it there.
Do not get me wrong, It’s ok as far as the trip comfort goes - all good but, as far as the claimed range of 610 km not as much....
Your view?
Cheers,
Loriano
Happy you support this discussion and generally agree on your view of the actual range of our cars.
In facts, just for the sake of sharing a real life case, I have a pretty standard one for a Switzerland to italy trip of 560 km. (500km. highway and 60km. hillside) which shows me that, even taking into account all variables i.e: outside temp., average speed, driving style, gradient, regen impact, heating/hvac, AP, etc..) I’ve never been able to cover it with 1 single charge, driving at ~90-100km/h total average speed with ~20 degrees celsius ouside temperature, but always requires at least ~20 min. SC stop to make it there.
Do not get me wrong, It’s ok as far as the trip comfort goes - all good but, as far as the claimed range of 610 km not as much....
Your view?
Cheers,
Loriano
I used to take the other routes over the mountains in my Lotus Elise which I enjoyed very much! South to Lyon, turn left to Geneva then roughly south keeping as high altidude as possible.
Data from your kind of predictable and repeatable 500km journey is very useful at understanding the reality of our cars rather than the exciting marketing noises. I started my Tesla journey when I drove the original Roadster in San Diego around 2010 (but it wasn't the right time for me to buy), and started looking at the new Roadster a couple of years ago. Out of frustration at the inability to communicate with Tesla but still wanting to consider reserving a Roadster, I decided to try buying a current model car to find out the reality of Tesla ownership. So now I have to understand what I actually own and how it compares with other cars and also learn about Tesla, how much I can trust them as a manfacturer, how to interpret their 'information' and may be to know when to consider changing vehicle for some worthwhile real advantage.
@Battpower : indeed what matters is the real world range... so far I have only done one 120 km trip and I averaged 145 watt/km... the weather conditions were good (+23 C) and driving speed ranged between 80-130 km/hr. However in the shorter distances a lot of the energy is spent on the BMS and airco etc ...i normally average around 225-240 watt/km for short distances (<10 kms)
There are so many losely made claims that make it hard to be confident of their meaning and significance.
Especially when owners explain that they increase their range and keep regen working by pre-heating while still connected to the charger. Of course they are correct, but this does not help understanding efficiency changes in the fleet and Model to model.
I suspect from (limited) Scan My Tesla data and contrary to some TMC posts, that balancing only happens while charging (maybe also while car is awake). In sleep, it makes no sense to keep using energy trying to balance cells. Also, I haven't found out if newer models Definately use active charge shuttling (Rob from rich to pay poor) to balance cells, or if it is all still passive by bleeding energy into heat to drop SOC of highest charged cells.
Efficiency while actually driving / use of available energy in battery is potentially quite different from end to end efficiency counting ac energy input measured at supply meter.
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@Battpower; @BESLA and To Whom It may concern:
Quote
@elonmusk Got my S LR in October 19 (360 miles at 100%) here in Switzerland where, along with EU, as far as I can see, no Plus is available yet. Any upgrade plans for us? Thanks!
Unquote
This is the tweet I’ve sent him and if you care to retweet just send me a message and I’ll provide details.
Not expecting much of a reaction, which would be nice but, I do not like to give up on this one.
And just fyi as a background:
Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle
Cheers!
Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle
Cheers!
I think that last part is actually demanding and entitled customers.
This is where I see that this went entirely off the rails. If you knew that they roll out improvements suddenly and randomly, instead of at predictable time intervals, then you knew the trip you were signing up for. You were knowingly committing to getting exactly and only what you paid for at that time (hardware), and agreeing to it. At any moment, in a day or a week or a month later, they could have a newer and better improved version of something and may have adjusted the price up or down, and you had to know you were going to accept that. By this fact that you won't and are unsatisfied and wanting more, shows a lot more about your attitude than Tesla's practices.
Because obviously you would want the double standard that only benefits you. You would obviously be outraged if there were a 12 month period that could adjust in both directions. Maybe prices go up some months after you have bought your car, and then they come to make you pay up the extra difference for the adjustment. You would throw a fit, and rightfully so. Because a purchase contract is a contract, and it protects both parties. They delivered what you agreed to buy, and you are not entitled to extras and retrofits of new hardware changes, and they are not allowed to chase you for extra payments if things go the other way.
Hi Rocky!
Thank you for your comments and glad that this sparked some interesting thoughts...which I’ve read carefully, but am not sure I entirely follow you.
Well, I agree with you, if you are driving a Raven MS you ought to be demanding and entitled somewhat don’t you think?
Can you explain to me why my 10/19 Raven MS LR and not only mine, it is being upgraded by Tesla to MS LR Plus for free via OTA in the US and not in Europe? Is it because MS Plus will get here only 6-8 months from now?
Quoting you here; because a purchase contract is a contract, and it protects both parties....
Cheers!
Hi @Lorians
Im not sure what age range of MSR LR are being upgraded OTA. I thought Jan onwards. EM said 'during past several months' but not specific about exactly who gets upgrade.
Also, they can't backdate range figure even if they gave you the upgrade, so the only way you could tell would be by your real range.... and the jury is still out if LR+ owners actually see 20% real range increase.
Im not sure what age range of MSR LR are being upgraded OTA. I thought Jan onwards. EM said 'during past several months' but not specific about exactly who gets upgrade.
Also, they can't backdate range figure even if they gave you the upgrade, so the only way you could tell would be by your real range.... and the jury is still out if LR+ owners actually see 20% real range increase.
No, of course not. Those are negative character traits and attitudes that make someone disliked; not positive qualities to aspire to. So no, I don't think anyone "ought" to be that way.
As to what gets upgrades and what doesn't and the timing of such, I really don't know. But the point is still in the attitude:
No one deserves these upgrades. Period. Some people may be very fortunate and lucky and get an update that they don't deserve, and they can be appreciative of that. Other people may not get it, due to schedules or build date, or whatever, and they will not get something that they couldn't really have been expecting anyway. And they have a personal choice to be satisfied with what they have, or to be upset and complain about it.
tinm
2020 Model S LR+ Owner
Wait so let me get this straight:
Is there a software update that must be installed before you see the promised 402-mile range?
I have a Model S LR+ built 5/2020 and I took delivery on Fri 6/20 and have already put over 500 mi on the car and done two supercharging sessions.
In neither case have I seen 402 mi range. I’m seeing about 393 max range. Before Tesla’s 402-mile announcement last week, this car was listed as having a range of 391mi. Will some future software update push it to 402 or have I been had?
Is there a software update that must be installed before you see the promised 402-mile range?
I have a Model S LR+ built 5/2020 and I took delivery on Fri 6/20 and have already put over 500 mi on the car and done two supercharging sessions.
In neither case have I seen 402 mi range. I’m seeing about 393 max range. Before Tesla’s 402-mile announcement last week, this car was listed as having a range of 391mi. Will some future software update push it to 402 or have I been had?
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Dear Battpower, fully agree with you. Seen here some end 2019 getting it but, will see..
Thank you!
Cheers
Hi Tinm,
This 391miles value happens to be exactly the value it is circulating here for former Raven S LR OTA upgraded to Plus. You can just search 391 miles in this forum and find relevant comments.
As to the gap to 402, I can only suggest you to check asap with your service centre. Just as a reference, I have a 2019 S Raven LR which is rated 380 miles and not showing more than 360 miles at 100%.
Hope it helps!
Cheers
Please, just enjoy your awesome car--it's has about 98% of the capability of the just released LR+, a car that's not even available in Europe yet?
Your supposed 610 km of range is NOT to be expected driving at such high speed and with huge elevation changes. You're upset about having to stop for 20 minutes? Really?
Let's extrapolate your "issue" going forward. Let's assume you had purchased the first LR+ in Europe. What would you do in a year or two when that SAME car now has even longer range and costs less than what you paid . . . .
Just like with every single laptop I have ever owned, if I had just waited a few more months or even weeks, I could have purchased a better, more powerful computer, for the same or less money.
This is the world of Tesla; get used to it as it is the way of the future, somewhere Tesla has been since about 2012.
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