Recommended annual service

[voip-ninja]

If Model 3 service turns out to indeed be as expensive as service on a Model S or X, I will definitely be shocked.

I never understood that argument of "service costs are much lower on an EV" in combination with the actual annual service costs of Tesla verhicles.

For a start, why annual service at all? No car I have ever had required annual service.
Second, why 900 USD for basically just looking over the car and exchanging some small items like wiper blades? Also, why have Tesla change the wiper blades for you? Those are 20 Euro items anyone can exchange at home within two minutes. Just did mine two weeks ago. And tire rotation? Over here that is done when you change from summer to winter tires and back again as part of the tire storage service. Rotate them again at an annual service? What for?

I have had my current car for almost 14 years now, and over that 14 years I have had total service costs of less than 2K Euro. I will look up the exact amount tonight. What's with those numbers of several thousands of dollars for a service some users here mention for their BMWs, Mercs, Audis, etc? Even service costs for my father's E-class and my father-in-law's A6 are usually around 500 too 600 Euro, and that is about every three years, not annually.
I mean I know that Ferrari service costs (as well as those on any other sportscar or luxury car) can be very expensive, but isn't Model 3 supposed to be a "mass-market" BEV for the cost-sensitive customer? Who with a 35 to 50K car will pay hundreds of Dollars/Euro/etc. each year for service and not feel ripped-off?

BMWs are much more expensive to service here than they are in Deutchsland.

BMW does have recommended service that is calculated by computer. On the model 3 this service is calculated by mileage or time-interval and is also derived by how hard the car is driven. BMW needs at least annual servicing that includes, at a minimum, changing of the motor oil.

In the USA BMW includes all regular service, and even includes replacement of consumable components like brake pads for the first 3 years or 36K miles of ownership (until very recently they covered 4 years or 48K miles but they seem to be aligning service with lease terms).

After that expires BMWs are quite expensive to service even through smaller independent mechanics. the 10 year 100K mile service on most BMWs will cost at least $1,000 if not more as it usually involves procedures such as adjusting valve timing, replacement of spark plugs and wires, etc. The battery on a 3 series, now that it's a special part, costs around $400 and installation (which is more involved than on most vehicles is $200-$300. You will need a minimum of one battery replacement every 5-6 years if you live in a cooler climate. It is impossible for the battery to last for 10+ years.

1400 Euros on a 10+ year old BMW would only be possible on a car here if you simply ignored the maintenance schedule and fixed things as they broke and got extremely lucky. Even an air filter or cabin filter on these cars is easily a $30-$50 part.

 

[kev1n]

If Model 3 service turns out to indeed be as expensive as service on a Model S or X, I will definitely be shocked.

I never understood that argument of "service costs are much lower on an EV" in combination with the actual annual service costs of Tesla verhicles.

For a start, why annual service at all? No car I have ever had required annual service.
Second, why 900 USD for basically just looking over the car and exchanging some small items like wiper blades? Also, why have Tesla change the wiper blades for you? Those are 20 Euro items anyone can exchange at home within two minutes. Just did mine two weeks ago. And tire rotation? Over here that is done when you change from summer to winter tires and back again as part of the tire storage service. Rotate them again at an annual service? What for?

I have had my current car for almost 14 years now, and over that 14 years I have had total service costs of less than 2K Euro. I will look up the exact amount tonight. What's with those numbers of several thousands of dollars for a service some users here mention for their BMWs, Mercs, Audis, etc? Even service costs for my father's E-class and my father-in-law's A6 are usually around 500 too 600 Euro, and that is about every three years, not annually.
I mean I know that Ferrari service costs (as well as those on any other sportscar or luxury car) can be very expensive, but isn't Model 3 supposed to be a "mass-market" BEV for the cost-sensitive customer? Who with a 35 to 50K car will pay hundreds of Dollars/Euro/etc. each year for service and not feel ripped-off?

i think the simple answer is that they can get away with it. with the price range that model s/x are in, people that mostly buy these cars are wealthy and have no issue paying for service(they dont touch their own cars). the model 3 crowd is likely going to be different

 

[jaguar36]

BMWs After that expires BMWs are quite expensive to service even through smaller independent mechanics. the 10 year 100K mile service on most BMWs will cost at least $1,000 if not more as it usually involves procedures such as adjusting valve timing, replacement of spark plugs and wires, etc. The battery on a 3 series, now that it's a special part, costs around $400 and installation (which is more involved than on most vehicles is $200-$300. You will need a minimum of one battery replacement every 5-6 years if you live in a cooler climate. It is impossible for the battery to last for 10+ years

Battery for my 335i was available from my local Pep Boys, was $200 (Yes it was an AGM) and took about 10 minutes to install. Adjust valve timing? Wha? This isn't a small block Chevy.

The BMW has been an order of magnitude less to service than the Tesla and that's even after the free maintence period expired.

 

[insaneoctane]

I would have said that the maintenance schedule would logically be less than the MS MX.... But I would have also said that the vehicle options like AP would logically be less than the MS MX. I know that EM has been on record stating that Tesla will not make the service department a profit center, but maybe the temptation is too great? At the current published MS MX pricing, it's surprisingly expensive IMO

 

[voip-ninja]

Battery for my 335i was available from my local Pep Boys, was $200 (Yes it was an AGM) and took about 10 minutes to install. Adjust valve timing? Wha? This isn't a small block Chevy.

The BMW has been an order of magnitude less to service than the Tesla and that's even after the free maintence period expired.

You seem to have me confused with someone who thinks BMW costs more to maintain than Tesla. Under Tesla current setup the Tesla will be far more expensive to maintain if the owner does the Tesla recommended service.

However, BMW is extremely expensive to maintain outside of warranty, as is Audi, Mercedes, etc.

For me, personally there is zero question that a BMW, Mercedes, Audi or Lexus will be far cheaper to own and maintain for 10-15 years than a Tesla. When something goes wrong with the Tesla it is going to cost many thousands of dollars to fix, and only Tesla are able to fix it unless it is something rudimentary in the car's suspension or brakes.

The prices for repairs that are being seen on Model S that are having failures are simply incredible. ICE owners will be completely shocked if their 5 year old Tesla needs a $5,000 repair and I'm personally not highly confident in Tesla's ability to put together a high reliability automobile.

 

[pkalhan]

Then why am I buy a Tesla again???

 

[Tforme]

Then why am I buy a Tesla again???

Because you recognize the urgency in moving away from our dependency on fossil fuels. And you enjoy the intoxicating feel of electric propulsion.

And maybe your willing to be an early adopter and take the risk that might entail?

 

[pkalhan]

yeah but...Voip_Ninja scared the poop out of me with his post.

Prior to thinking about a Tesla I was considering a CPO BMW 335i XDRIVE, but thought the maintenance would be a bit high...seeing his post makes me think the BMW might not be that bad LOL.

 

[ElecFan]

Here's a TCO comparison between model 3 and BMW 330i. See for yourself.

 

[voip-ninja]

Here's a TCO comparison between model 3 and BMW 330i. See for yourself.

1. They insisted that since 140,000 Teslas have already been delivered in the US, only the next 60,000 would qualify for the tax credit. Wrong.

2. They are also comparing base model Tesla 3 ($35000) to pretty loaded 330i ($45,000). A better comparison would have been Model 3 vs BMW 320i base model since the features on the two would be closer (manual seats, etc., although even at this price the BMW has "leather" interior compared to the Tesla which will get cloth seating surfaces).

3. They compare California gas prices to non-existent .10 kWh electric prices (in Southern California).

4. They claim 1st year maintenance on Tesla Model 3 is $495 when in fact we don't yet know what Model 3 annual service costs will be and they completely ignore the fact that only Tesla can do full service on Tesla vehicles.

5. At year 4 they claim $850 for Tesla maintenance. I assume they are guessing on cost compared to the Model S for battery coolant service.

6. They completely ignore the reality of any out of pocket repair costs on the Tesla once the warranty is up.

7. They claim that in year 3 BMW has $700+ in maintenance costs. I have news for them, BMW includes all maintenance other than tires and wiper blades for the first 3 years.

8. They claim year 4 BMW maintenance cost at almost $3000 which is ridiculous.

9. Hard to take them too seriously since they stacked the deck, heavily, in favor of the Tesla.

 

[AustinPowers]

BMWs are much more expensive to service here than they are in Deutchsland.

BMW does have recommended service that is calculated by computer. On the model 3 this service is calculated by mileage or time-interval and is also derived by how hard the car is driven. BMW needs at least annual servicing that includes, at a minimum, changing of the motor oil.

In the USA BMW includes all regular service, and even includes replacement of consumable components like brake pads for the first 3 years or 36K miles of ownership (until very recently they covered 4 years or 48K miles but they seem to be aligning service with lease terms).

Thanks for the heads-up.

Over here, like I said, service costs are much lower. The recommended service intervals are calculated by the onboard computer too though. Yet there is no required annual service per se, unless of course you amass enough mileage (which I certainly don't).
Otoh, we don't get "free" service for any amount of time, at least not with any German manufacturer. We have to pay for service from day one. Yet as the costs are so much lower, it still seems to be a better deal overall.

 

[Tforme]

This video makes several assumptions that may significantly change the value equation. Eg: paid full MSRP for each car when that is only true of the Tesla. BMW is significantly discounted and that will make a big change in the calculation.

The Honda is out of full warrenty for the last two years and the other two are out for a full year. What is going to be the owner cost of repairs in years 4 and 5 for the Honda and year 5 for the other two? -nobody really knows. But based on current Teslas, whatever repairs are required will be very pricey.

I just wouldn’t put a lot of faith in the validity of this comparison.

 

[ChooseGreen]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm reading on Page 112 of the Model 3 manual that has been floating around is that:

• tires need to be rotated (moot point for those of us who change winter tires on and off twice per year),
• the brake fluid should be changed every 2 years, and
• the battery coolant should be changed every 4 years.

Assuming one is capable of changing wiper blades and pouring washer fluid in ourselves, the Tesla should only need to see a shop every 2 years in the ideal case. I can't see those visits being more than $1000 at the most expensive. Tough to see how the >$4k figure for maintenance seems realistic for the Model 3.

In addition to that will be tires, oops moments, out of warranty failures....anything else?

 

[voip-ninja]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm reading on Page 112 of the Model 3 manual that has been floating around is that:

• tires need to be rotated (moot point for those of us who change winter tires on and off twice per year),
• the brake fluid should be changed every 2 years, and
• the battery coolant should be changed every 4 years.

Assuming one is capable of changing wiper blades and pouring washer fluid in ourselves, the Tesla should only need to see a shop every 2 years in the ideal case. I can't see those visits being more than $1000 at the most expensive. Tough to see how the >$4k figure for maintenance seems realistic for the Model 3.

In addition to that will be tires, oops moments, out of warranty failures....anything else?

Well, there are two things.

Regardless of the maintenance language Tesla does sell service on their other cars that's pretty expensive and if their extended warranty is purchased then they can refuse to honor it if you don't do the spendy annual services.

 

[ChooseGreen]

Well, there are two things.

Regardless of the maintenance language Tesla does sell service on their other cars that's pretty expensive and if their extended warranty is purchased then they can refuse to honor it if you don't do the spendy annual services.

Fair enough, but if someone does not purchase the extended warranty I am having trouble seeing where the big expense comes in. I didn't see anything in the manual beyond doing really sulky things to your car that would void the warranty (e.g. opening the battery pack, opening the battery coolant reservoir, lifting the car away from the jack points, etc.). Granted, there is no description of the warranty in the manual so there could be different working there, but I don't see anything crazy expensive or egregious in the documentation that has circulated thus far.

 

[PlayaVista]

>> their extended warranty is purchased then they can refuse to honor it if you don't do the spendy annual services.

"However, even if you never bring in the car, your warranty is still valid."
-Elon Musk
Creating the World’s Best Service and Warranty Program

 

[voip-ninja]

Fair enough, but if someone does not purchase the extended warranty I am having trouble seeing where the big expense comes in. I didn't see anything in the manual beyond doing really sulky things to your car that would void the warranty (e.g. opening the battery pack, opening the battery coolant reservoir, lifting the car away from the jack points, etc.). Granted, there is no description of the warranty in the manual so there could be different working there, but I don't see anything crazy expensive or egregious in the documentation that has circulated thus far.

The drive-train is covered for 8 years or 100K miles. Drive units on Model S and X seem to fail quite a lot and cost something like $10,000 or more to replace. That is far more than what a "blown engine" on an ICE costs to fix.

Let's look at some other things that fail with a lot of frequency on Model S and X... like center console screen ($5,000), door handles ($2,000), etc.

All of those non drive train things will be full out of pocket costs once the 4 year 50K bumper to bumper warranty on the model 3 is done.

I was looking at Model 3 as a good "long term" EV ownership car but I'm now leaning towards buying 1st production to take advantage of tax credits and then dumping the car before the warranty is up. Let the next owner deal with all of the hideously expensive things that only Tesla can fix since they refuse to sell parts or provide technical documentation to independent shops to do service.

 

[jaguar36]

... I don't see anything crazy expensive or egregious in the documentation that has circulated thus far.

The crazy expenses come from the ridiculous rates that Tesla charges to do the work. You pretty much have to take your car to Tesla to have most work done (particularly the battery coolant as it requires the Tesla Toolbox, the brake fluid could probably be done elsewhere) and therefore they are able to abuse their monopoly and charge whatever they want. Its yet to be seen how much they will charge for the 3, but as previously mentioned I doubt it will be much less than the S/X.

 

[Moderatefan]

The posted MS maintenance prices are upsetting and I tend to think the M3 costs will be comparable, since they did not budge much on prices for the options, which add up fast and make a mass market car not so much mass market unless you feel great just having the barebones. AP&FSD are needed to bring us the safer future, yet prices are not so much mass market. If expensive breakdowns indeed occur often outside warranty period, I'm thinking M3 might be my first and last Tesla car - hopefully, other manufacturers will catch up few years later and will offer more reasonable cost of ownership.

 

[Runt8]

Lots of angst in this thread for not knowing any details...