Reuters: "Tesla readies revamped Model 3 with project 'Highland' -sources" [projected 3rd quarter 2023]

[Phido]

Probably didn't express myself clearly. Of course the new one will be more aerodynamic than its predecessor. What I am saying is that it doesn't look as aerodynamic as the old one, which is why I am wondering if the picture is the real thing. Also, if an aerodynamic engineer would like to chime in on why and why not, I think it would be interesting.

Not an aero engineer, but I teach engineering.

All the hardpoints of the car are the same, it looks cleaner to the air, but has the same functional design from an aero point of view. If the current car is .23, the new car is going to be like ~.225. It won't be a huge change. If they tidy up the rear of the car they might get it down to .21. Its the rear of the car that most of the drag optimisation could be had.. The rear bumper is going to be interesting, the front is aerodynamically very similar. IMO if they put more effort into the rear they could get the drag below the 0.20 that was the original drag target.

Heck, the bumper is almost the same, if it wasn't the headlight change, I doubt most people would notice.

IMO aero is the thing Tesla should be targeting. Quieter, longer range, more energy efficient. Its important for all cars, but very important on an electric car where range is often a big consideration, range at highway speeds.

While tesla is making a big deal of this, it is just a minor reskin. Some car companies change things like plastic bumpers/headlight every 2 years, to freshen the model, because they are fairly cheap changes to make. Tesla doesn't do mega huge changes, they are all about minor incremental changes as they go along. A 2017 Model 3 and a 2023 Model 3 are very different cars. All model Y's are different depending on where they are made and have a different number of mega castings.

 

[dusty22]

I wonder how much a front license plate affects aerodynamics ?

 

[Phido]

I wonder how much a front license plate affects aerodynamics ?

Its a small amount, there is already a fair amount of stagnant air at the front of the model 3/y/s/x.

Some of that is deliberate, they want cooling at low speeds, and they want wheel air curtains at higher speeds. Some of that is also a styling thing.
There isn't any reason these days why a license plate can't be a completely smooth sticker. It would likely last longer, be more aerodynamic, harder to steal, harder to fake (you could put holograms on it for example) and it would create less noise. They also don't need to be as large, speed cameras and toll cameras are easily good enough these days that licenses designed for human eye sight are way bigger than required. There really isn't a reason to have them at all.

Mirrors make a significant contribution, smaller mirrors would reduce surface area in clean area. Making the mirrors smaller, makes sense these days with self driving cars, and cameras/sensors all around. You could make a pretty good mirror at half or a quarter of the size of the current ones. IMO they should have kept parking sensors and removed the mirrors. Or implemented a lidar type system front and rear, which would have been more useful than radar + USS..

I believe highland is partly driven by existing tooling wearing out, and the Chinese market. I don't think we will see it on sale in China until Sept. Even then I am not sure HW4 will be on that immediately. We may even see a HW3 LC, which is HW3 but with production efficencies to lower cost.

The US just changed its front and rear bumpers, with new tooling to remove USS. I imagine they will probably be the last to change after a few hundred thousand cars and the tooling needs to change again.

The other key change will be new Lithium batteries, and that is definitely happening in China first. The US incentives, mean that importing LFP batteries from China is really not ideal for a car like the model 3. Not only that, the US has capacity, I wouldn't be surprised if LFP goes away in the US and Model 3 with 4680 takes the place of low cost entry level. They have spent a lot of money and time for that technology in that format. It isn't going to be popular in China or in Europe, they can probably do it with US manufacture for the price of the current LFP packs.

LFP will come back when CATL has their new North America factory in ~24 months. By then 4680 will be old hat and everyone will be on new chemistry and new formats. The Phosphate wars will come to the US by then, and prices will be dropping.

 

[3sr+buyer]

There isn't any reason these days why a license plate can't be a completely smooth sticker.

Mirrors make a significant contribution, smaller mirrors would reduce surface area in clean area. Making the mirrors smaller, makes sense these days with self driving cars, and cameras/sensors all around. You could make a pretty good mirror at half or a quarter of the size of the current ones. IMO they should have kept parking sensors and removed the mirrors.

California allows sticker front license plates: License Plate Wrap

Side mirrors are required in the US; in some other countries, cameras with displays for the driver are allowed instead. Think of the display that pops up when you use the turn signal on a Tesla, but it is on a dedicated full time display positioned near where you would look for a traditional mirror.

 

[smogne41]

Interestingly the Mercedes Vision EQXX prototype (an engineering demonstration vehicle highly optimized for efficiency) has smaller side mirrors instead of cameras+screens. The mirrors were more efficient according to Mercedes engineers.

 

[Brou]

California allows sticker front license plates: License Plate Wrap

Side mirrors are required in the US; in some other countries, cameras with displays for the driver are allowed instead. Think of the display that pops up when you use the turn signal on a Tesla, but it is on a dedicated full time display positioned near where you would look for a traditional mirror.

Kia/Hyundai are starting to use sideview cameras in place of mirrors on some of their non-US cars. I wonder if the decreased drag coefficient is offset by the increased energy usage from having two cameras and LCD screens constantly running.

 

[mtndrew1]

"Press the big part.. grab the small skinny part."

I say that to so many friends who don't have a Tesla and try to get in ours.

Almost bought those stick-on handles sold on Amazon.

I’ve always thought the fat part should have a little thumb-sized divot to encourage people to press there. Once the handle pops out the action becomes obvious(ish).

 

[Phido]

Kia/Hyundai are starting to use sideview cameras in place of mirrors on some of their non-US cars. I wonder if the decreased drag coefficient is offset by the increased energy usage from having two cameras and LCD screens constantly running.

It would be dependant on speed.

In the city mirrors would win by a great deal. Highway speeds, drag is a real thing. But the difference would probably not be economical, talking about the energy difference of ~5 miles on an EV like the model 3. Smaller mirrors could be accommodated, with the same angle and field of view.

Tesla used to lead the market in drag with the model 3, now there are cars significantly better. Tesla could obtain .20 or .19 as there are cars on the market today at 0.20 that look very much like the tesla model 3 (sedan with mirrors and boot 4 doors etc). The Merc EQS for example. The model s is now at .203 and used to be at .24 before it was updated.

That would give the car another 10-30 miles of range, which is significant. Given it doesn't require any extra metal, battery, production costs, maintenance, electricity etc. As it now has less drag, recharging is faster per km gained, total cost of ownership is reduced. Incremental improvements over time, combined with other improvements in battery, tyres, motor, cabin HVAC etc can make a significant combined difference.

 

[Perscitus]

Honda and VAG group cars/suvs etc also use cameras on more and more recent, particularly EV, ZEV models outside the US.

Elon actually talked about the side mirrors being one of his pet peeves years ago. Back then he would have preferred to dump them, but the antiquated US regulations curbed his enthusiasm.
Nothing will change for years on this, just like the antiquated headlight/tailight laws, speed limits (but also thr abysmal state of road infrastructure and interstate network).

 

[Rocket_man]

"Press the big part.. grab the small skinny part."

I say that to so many friends who don't have a Tesla and try to get in ours.

Almost bought those stick-on handles sold on Amazon.

But this is kind of my point. A door should be intuitively obvious how to operate it. Whether it is a car door or a room door. Normally the main question with a door is does it swing in or out. Not a single person new to a Tesla could open the door without some instruction. I can't recall a single car I've owned that I couldn't open the door with just a single finger. Except for the Tesla, the most advanced car I've owned. If I had arthritis, or some other hand injury or handicap it would be a two hand operation to open the car door. If Tesla can figure out EV's why is a door handle so challenging? They could come up with a user friendly way to get in the car if they wanted to.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

You certainly can open the door with one finger, I do it all the time when I'm holding things that I don't want to bang against the door. Just poke and pull.

And all my passengers know exactly how Tesla door handles work so they just stand there and wait for them to pop out. Then once they realize that everyone else is in the car while they're still standing there waiting for the handle to pop out, they poke at it until they figure it out. The good news is that this exercise prepares them for the grand challenge of opening the door from the inside!

And FWIW, Tesla door handles are a lot easier to figure out than those early Corvette handles were!

 

[Brou]

And FWIW, Tesla door handles are a lot easier to figure out than those early Corvette handles were!


View attachment 929774

That's a 70 year old car. I don't think that's the compliment you're thinking it is.

The seats are undoubtedly more comfortable than the benches on Oregon Trail wagons. Maybe that isn't something we should benchmark them against, though.

 

[derekmw]

I don't get all this confusion/complaints on the Model 3 door handles. Once I showed it to my mother and father in law, who are in their 80's, they have no problem opening it. The only problem I have ever seen is those who didn't know about how it works their first time they try to open it. Afterwards, no one has had issues opening it, WITH one hand.

 

[smogne41]

https://www.amazon.com/Tarsier-Tesla-Model-Handle-Stickers/dp/B08K7QV5ND?th=1

 

[BigNerd]

You certainly can open the door with one finger, I do it all the time when I'm holding things that I don't want to bang against the door. Just poke and pull.

If you have a strong finger and no/short nails.

I'm sure there are others who can't do that.

I agree with you @Rocket_man ... what I was trying to say is that I shouldn't have to explain how to open my car door. Never had to do that with any other vehicle I owned.

 

[jeremymc7]

I can think of at least a dozen cars that require explanation to open.

 

[BigNerd]

I just tried the one finger technique... not too easy.. maybe I should have used the middle.

I can think of at least a dozen cars that require explanation to open.

Normal consumer cars? Like Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford?

I must be driving the wrong cars... none of my truck or minivans required any type of dissertation.

 

[jeremymc7]

I just tried the one finger technique... not too easy.. maybe I should have used the middle.

Normal consumer cars? Like Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford?

I must be driving the wrong cars... none of my truck or minivans required any type of dissertation.

Corvette has had some over the years. But if you only consider Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford as "normal" cars that makes it more difficult.

Ferrari, Lambo and some other exotic have had some that are almost impossible to find.

But yes there have been mass market / main stream cars over the last 50+ years that had creative door handles.

Mazda RX-7, Nissan 350Z, Toyota C-HR, Nissan Juke just off the top of mt head.

Some are only weird on the back doors; others front only or both.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

I can think of at least a dozen cars that require explanation to open.

Exactly. Modern Buicks, for example, always require some degree of explanation as to why you would even want to open the door.

 

[Sunlight]

Our Jag I-Pace door handles are a challenge to almost everyone so I double click to extend them most of the time.

Can be fun, can be irritating....