Reuters: "Tesla readies revamped Model 3 with project 'Highland' -sources" [projected 3rd quarter 2023]

[E90alex]

Large castings possibly. I don’t see them doing a structural pack, at least not with 4680 cells because again, there’s just not enough of them to sustain Model 3 production at this time nor do they have the energy density to replace 2170 yet.

 

[R.P.E.]

Think the highland refresh will get new batteries/M3P

Generally speaking, ‘Refreshes’ are minor overhauls with cosmetic tweaks, specific software features, ect. ‘New batteries’ isn’t minor to any degree.

If you look at Apple in comparison to Tesla, they’re both very similar in terms of how they ration their updated features on products. I suspect Tesla will be very conservative with the Highland refresh, similar to what Apple would be with an iPhone. I think people tend to forget that Tesla is primarily a software company than they are just a ‘hardware company’. These cars generally don’t need major overhauls just because a ‘refresh’ is coming.

 

[kpanda17]

If LFPs have evolved to LMFP/M3P and CATL made them to the same form factor as currently used in the M3 in a factory right next to Tesla Shanghai, all indicators are there that Tesla highland will use them.

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

 

[Destiny1701]

Think the highland refresh will get new batteries/M3P (not mistaken for same acronym of M3 Performance) across rhe models
RWD goes to 300 miles
Perf goes to 350 miles
LR goes to 400 miles
M3P battery can go 5 to 100% charging
Therefore amazing range use is possible
Wait!

Buddy there is no way M3 will get the range of the SLR. They would cannibalize sales or it. Not for the price they sell M3 for.

 

[kpanda17]

Due to battery Chem/tech advances these things can happen, not perfect timing
M3RWD goes to 300 miles due to M3P batteries
CATL is saying M3P provides 10 to 20% energy density increase hence 272 moving to 300
Now what for Perf and LR? Lith ion has not advanced as much

My current LFP M3RWD has usable range of 260 miles
My much more expensive MYP has usable range of 272, only 4.6% more
This is now with LFP, soon M3RWD will have better range than MYP
Battery tech vs battery tech is getting crazy

 

[Watts_Up]

I hope the new Model 3 will get a noticeable price reduction or/and a noticeable range increase.

Otherwise, except some cosmetic changes and smaller comfort improvement,
and no change to the body in white, such as finally providing a hatchback,
(something that the Prius, the Kia/Hyundai, the Volvo/Polestar of similar size than the Model 3 provide),

I don't see the need to a Model 3 update when comparing the Model 3 LR an Model Y LR,
to boost the sales of the Model 3 LR when there is only $3,250 price difference.

Model 3 LR - $47,240 - 333 miles of range​

​

Model Y LR - $50,490 - 330 miles of range​

 

[father_of_6]

M3RWD goes to 300 miles due to M3P batteries
CATL is saying M3P provides 10 to 20% energy density increase hence 272 moving to 300
Now what for Perf and LR? Lith ion has not advanced as much

CATL's new M3P battery isn't lithium-ion?

 

[kpanda17]

the panasonic 2170 “lithium ion“ batteries are
Nickle-cobalt-manganese

the catl m3p Chem, While the precise chemistry of the new batteries isn't known, the new M3P battery is an improved version of the LFP chemistry where the iron (F) is replaced with a mix of magnesium, zinc, and aluminium. So the MP3 is still a lithium phosphate battery

 

[SteevHD]

Picked up my new M3LR on Wednesday because I like having the stalks, and all of the changes that would be worth waiting for are still rumors at this point. Been looking at the Highland refresh news daily up to this point, and actually pulled the trigger on the current order because I saw that Highland was coming soon. I prefer to get the last of a current-gen than the first model year of a refresh with new hardware.

It's all moot imo because in 4 years I'll trade up to something with a solid-state pack that gets 800+ mile range anyway, but for now the M3LR I picked up checks off everything on my list, including really good incentives.

 

[Watts_Up]

It's all moot imo because in 4 years I'll trade up to something with a solid-state pack that gets 800+ mile range anyway,

... you mean 4 Leap years ?

 

[R.P.E.]

Picked up my new M3LR on Wednesday because I like having the stalks, and all of the changes that would be worth waiting for are still rumors at this point. Been looking at the Highland refresh news daily up to this point, and actually pulled the trigger on the current order because I saw that Highland was coming soon. I prefer to get the last of a current-gen than the first model year of a refresh with new hardware.

It's all moot imo because in 4 years I'll trade up to something with a solid-state pack that gets 800+ mile range anyway, but for now the M3LR I picked up checks off everything on my list, including really good incentives.

To be honest, my experience with my Model S was actually second nature when just using the toggle on the steering well with the haptic feedback. I can understand why the ‘stalks’ are an important experience for others, because they’re generational, but I also found it completely natural to be accustomed to the buttons on the wheel. It’s like anything, it’s an adaptation phase. Some people like change, others don’t. It’s all subjective. But I’m also in preference to having the yoke as well, where others prefer to have a full wheel.

 

[R.P.E.]

Been looking at the Highland refresh news daily up to this point, and actually pulled the trigger on the current order because I saw that Highland was coming soon. I prefer to get the last of a current-gen than the first model year of a refresh with new hardware.

I share your thoughts on this. I don’t generally like to buy the first model of a refresh. Mainly because I do want to see what others experiences are, initial glitches or hardware faults that need to be worked out, etc. It’s fairly standard that most new GEN products have to mature a bit first.

 

[kpanda17]

To be honest, my experience with my Model S was actually second nature when just using the toggle on the steering well with the haptic feedback. I can understand why the ‘stalks’ are an important experience for others, because they’re generational, but I also found it completely natural to be accustomed to the buttons on the wheel. It’s like anything, it’s an adaptation phase. Some people like change, others don’t. It’s all subjective. But I’m also in preference to having the yoke as well, where others prefer to have a full wheel.

Same here
Just drove a brand new S, no stalks
Makes sense, no issue

 

[SteevHD]

Maybe 4 Leap years... but Toyota is claiming they'll have first-gen solid state in cars by 2027 w/ a 745 mile range, second gen solid state to have 932 mile range. Nio's ES6 already has solid state batts w/ ~570 mile range.

 

[father_of_6]

I can understand why the ‘stalks’ are an important experience for others, because they’re generational, but I also found it completely natural to be accustomed to the buttons on the wheel.

It's not just generational. There's a significant functional difference between the two. Stalks remain in the same place regardless of which direction the wheel is turned.

 

[dakhlkt22]

It's not just generational. There's a significant functional difference between the two. Stalks remain in the same place regardless of which direction the wheel is turned.

Like try shutting off the radio after you've started to turn the wheel. Very confusing.

 

[ucmndd]

Due to battery Chem/tech advances these things can happen, not perfect timing
M3RWD goes to 300 miles due to M3P batteries
CATL is saying M3P provides 10 to 20% energy density increase hence 272 moving to 300

There is a naive assumption here that I want to point out. You’re assuming they make packs with the same number of cells.

Greater energy density is a good thing - it enables lighter weight and the same range with fewer cells. Fewer cells = fewer dollars. A major objective of the Highland appears to be reducing cost, not necessarily increasing range (and I 100% agree with the prior comments that they will artificially maintain significant differentiation in range between trims and more importantly models like the S/X). I think it’s equally if not more likely they make a cost saving move, reduce cell count, and maintain roughly the same pack capacity and range.

My current LFP M3RWD has usable range of 260 miles

Downhill with a tail wind, no HVAC, at 40mph?

the panasonic 2170 “lithium ion“ batteries are
Nickle-cobalt-manganese

No - Panasonic currently makes NCA cells - Nickel Cobalt Aluminum.

LG Chem is making NCM (Nickel Cobalt Manganese) cells in China - similar characteristics to NCA but slightly less energy dense. You can find them in the 3LR.

 

[jjrandorin]

I can understand why the ‘stalks’ are an important experience for others, because they’re generational,

If By "Generational" you mean "every single person that has learned to drive a vehicle from when they were invented, to right now" then perhaps.

This is sort of like people who tried to re design the keyboard that we use for most computer input ("QWERTY") to the "DVORAK" keyboard, because "its faster", except a computer keyboard is not safety signaling equipment.

If all manufacturers simultaneously switched to "no stalks" then people would have no option except to adjust, or, if someone drives only vehicles with no stalks, same thing. If there is any need / desire to swap between vehicles, people should not have to "concentrate" on how to use signals. They just wont use them (like many already dont).

 

[Bouba]

If By "Generational" you mean "every single person that has learned to drive a vehicle from when they were invented, to right now" then perhaps.

This is sort of like people who tried to re design the keyboard that we use for most computer input ("QWERTY") to the "DVORAK" keyboard, because "its faster", except a computer keyboard is not safety signaling equipment.

If all manufacturers simultaneously switched to "no stalks" then people would have no option except to adjust, or, if someone drives only vehicles with no stalks, same thing. If there is any need / desire to swap between vehicles, people should not have to "concentrate" on how to use signals. They just wont use them (like many already dont).

But manufacturers are different...ever got into a car and instead of flashing your hi-beams you squirt windshield washer ?

 

[E90alex]

But manufacturers are different...ever got into a car and instead of flashing your hi-beams you squirt windshield washer ?

No? High beam controls are pretty universal too.