Reuters: "Tesla readies revamped Model 3 with project 'Highland' -sources" [projected 3rd quarter 2023]

[Destiny1701]

For those worried about not wanting a refresh model for a year or two ..worried about new body issues…look at model S.

2020 to 2021…good refreshed interior, wider body panels/suspension, motors, heat pumps, ventilation etc

I don’t see refreshed 2021’s owners facing any particular new set of issues over the outgoing last model year 2020/early 2021 MS. Same issues with panel gaps, vibrations, some suspension rattles….same old. (I’ve owned a 2016 90D and a 2018 100D and I keep tabs on 2021+ owners gripes/issues from time to time so see if Tesla has addressed any concerns from years ago…it’s literally identical to what our smaller group of motors club members posted about many years ago. Quite similar).

The significant diff here will likely be no stalks and/or a yoke option, interior tweaks, exterior body tweaks. Nothing that would make a new model refresh particularly at risk of a higher degree of issues over todays outgoing.

Just buy when you wish. Outgoing current or highland…you’ll enjoy it just the same

 

[Birdsfan]

Yeah, I think that was foul playing saying "M3" on these forums but meaning a BMW. There's got to be a rule against that. Five yard penalty.

Fair enough, I'll take the 5 yard penalty I certainly didn't intend for any misdirection.

 

[dakhlkt22]

1.) Depending on your region, M3’s prices are being slashed like a horror movie. And the M3’s I’m referring to, aren’t high mileage. They’re like low mileage, 21/22 Model year with owners that have the ‘title in hand’ that are just willing to sell, being there is a very minimal market, where there just isn’t a plethora of buyers due to interest rates and inflation. Therefore, some of these cars are literally new, garage kept with low miles that are selling for well under what they’re worth. Heck, even some local dealerships, who have random M3’s on their lot, can’t sell them. And they’re having to send them to Manheim auction, even $10,000 under net value. My point is, I wouldn’t buy a brand new M3, given I’ll let somebody take the depreciation and a consumer can buy a slightly used one that hasn’t even been exposed to rain hardly.
...
3.) And I won’t even touch the topic of all these ‘take over my lease’ users on this site who are dumping their M3’s that are literally new. (But that’s neither here, nor there.)

Why do you have a sense than used M3 prices are dropping? Are you accounting for the fact that Tesla MSRPs have dropped a lot in the last year and also that most buyers of new M3 get a 7500 tax credit plus whatever their state offers? I have seen many owners of EVs expect to actually make money when they sell their cars, and that seems completely unrealistic to me. I know the used car market has been crazy high, but at some point it has to normalize, and the cost of a used EV should be less than the cost of buying one new with tax credits. (Why would someone buy a used EV for more than it would cost them to buy one new using tax credits?)

 

[R.P.E.]

Why do you have a sense than used M3 prices are dropping?

Because…. they are. I mean, I’m not speaking generally for every location. But my region specific, M3 prices are being reduced greatly. Both from private sellers and dealerships, where they’re just sitting with no traction. They don’t sell, because partially of what I already mentioned about interest rates that are inflated, and in general, EV’s are still a very niche market to a lot of consumers, who just generally don’t have the education behind them, or they simply don’t care.

Have you even looked on the M3 used forum on this very site? Granted, this is a very small community here, but those M3’s aren’t selling, and even as I watch the marketplace for M3’s on this site, those owners are reducing prices weekly. Take a look for yourself.

Are you accounting for the fact that Tesla MSRPs have dropped a lot in the last year and also that most buyers of new M3 get a 7500 tax credit plus whatever their state offers?

Except, you have to be able to qualify for the tax credit. Just because it’s available, doesn’t mean you automatically qualify. Yes, that does take an account where it does affect used M3 drops, but that’s still only a quarter of what’s contributing to M3’s being reduced in price by private sellers. Again, it’s region, specific, infrastructure, economical conditions, APR rates, etc. It’s a myriad of factors, not just one.

I have seen many owners of EVs expect to actually make money when they sell their cars, and that seems completely unrealistic to me.

Isn’t that the goal for everyone, when they sell a used car? Is to make money? That’s not really the point of contention I was making. What I was saying was, if you don’t owe money on the car and you have the ‘title in hand’, I think some private sellers are just looking to offload their EV, because there’s not a lot of attraction to begin with, given it’s a very small market for EV’s in general. I would say it depends on one’s financial situation, rather they owe on the vehicle or if they actually on the vehicle themselves out right, and if they’re willing to take a hit on the vehicle with such a limited buyer market.

I know the used car market has been crazy high, but at some point it has to normalize

The whole ‘normalize’ theory with the used car market is about as predictable as a meteor striking the Earth. Nobody knows when it’s going to ‘normalize’, and it’s been this way for over three years prior to the pandemic.

and the cost of a used EV should be less than the cost of buying one new with tax credits.

Again, IF you qualify for the tax credit. Part of the problem with the tax credit, is people automatically assume they receive the $7500 discount. That’s not how it works. I would encourage anyone prior to purchasing a new EV, to understand if they qualify by checking with their tax advisor.

(Why would someone buy a used EV for more than it would cost them to buy one new using tax credits?)

I guess it depends on how much is the savings one can find on a used one. I would based a a used one on mileage, condition, how many owners and what software does it include in the package with the vehicle? And then compare that to a new price and how much are you saving with or without the tax credit if you actually qualify. Not only that, but, like I said, there are some extremely low mileage M3’s that are hardly driven.

And although I don’t believe in leasing, there’s tons of people trying to dump/transfer their lease agreements on like-new Teslas.

 

[kpanda17]

Think the highland refresh will get new batteries/M3P (not mistaken for same acronym of M3 Performance) across rhe models
RWD goes to 300 miles
Perf goes to 350 miles
LR goes to 400 miles
M3P battery can go 5 to 100% charging
Therefore amazing range use is possible
Wait!

 

[E90alex]

Think the highland refresh will get new batteries/M3P (not mistaken for same acronym of M3 Performance) across rhe models
RWD goes to 300 miles
Perf goes to 350 miles
LR goes to 400 miles
M3P battery can go 5 to 100% charging
Therefore amazing range use is possible
Wait!

Absolutely not. M3P does not even have the energy density of the current 2170 NCA/NMC cells. It will be impossible to beat the range of LR or P with M3P batteries.

It should improve range over the current standard LFP pack though.

 

[kpanda17]

Tesla warned about receiving the full tax credit on M3s toward rhe end of the year
Think the batteries are changing
RWD M3P

RWD LFP 272 miles goes to 300 miles with M3P batteries
This will be a problem for rhe Perf and LR if they do not change the batteries or use a tighter packed, structural pack for more energy
Currently 315 and 333
If only focused on range the new RWD with M3P looks amazing

 

[E90alex]

The tax credits are changing because the way the law was written the % of required minerals and parts content from certain countries change each year. Even with the same batteries the tax credit may change depending on the exact battery composition.

 

[SumOne]

I would be shocked if the highland has anything that actually matters like new motors or batteries. I'm betting on a purely cosmetic refresh; molding body around newer shaped headlights and tailights. Interior will get a new skin on the dash.

 

[Bouba]

All the news I’ve heard is that Shanghai is getting ready for Highland delivery...does anyone know if the U.S. factories are also going to produce Highlands ?....and if they do does that mean they will have different batteries ?

 

[3sr+buyer]

I would be shocked if the highland has anything that actually matters like new motors or batteries. I'm betting on a purely cosmetic refresh; molding body around newer shaped headlights and tailights. Interior will get a new skin on the dash.

The CATL M3P battery (standard range only) may just happen to become available at the same time as the Highland refresh.

But two of the rumored changes other than the CATL M3P battery are likely to be noticeable to the driver:

• Nose camera for better parking aid functionality (in particular, covering the blind spot left by removal of ultrasonic sensors).
• Lack of stalks.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Think the highland refresh will get new batteries/M3P (not mistaken for same acronym of M3 Performance) across rhe models
RWD goes to 300 miles
Perf goes to 350 miles
LR goes to 400 miles
M3P battery can go 5 to 100% charging
Therefore amazing range use is possible
Wait!

The CATL M3P battery is a lithium phosphate battery that does not have as high capacity per weight/volume as NCA or NMC batteries, so one with the capacity for the long range model would not fit. Its advantages over NCA and NMC batteries are lower cost (due to less expensive ingredients, particularly no cobalt) and better safety against battery fires.

 

[father_of_6]

I would be shocked if the highland has anything that actually matters like new motors or batteries. I'm betting on a purely cosmetic refresh; molding body around newer shaped headlights and tailights. Interior will get a new skin on the dash.

I thought it was set in stone that gigapress rear casting was happening, just like the Y. Although that's not a visible change, just a manufacturing cost reduction.

 

[kpanda17]

Highland should have the structural pack
Btw, it’s real the RWD with M3P 300 miles
This will be confusing to buyers vs LR cost

 

[Unclepaul]

The current clearance sale pricing, combined with attractive Federal, State and Utility rebates make the current offerings very tempting.

Most of the engineering going into the Highland refresh is designed to make those cars less expensive and faster to manufacture. Of course, some new enhancements might be customer centric, but mostly the new car will offer much of the same Tesla Ownership Experience.

Popular ultrasonics have already been deleted, along with radar. That ship has sailed.

No matter what improvements might come with the first run of Highlands, it is also certain that further enhancements will be coming down the line afterwards that buyers will want. You can never buy the Tesla of the Future, only what is coming down the assembly line for your delivery configuration.

Buyers often want to arbitrage their ordering strategy, but Tesla tends to hold their cards close to the vest, making order timing uncertain.

 

[Bouba]

The current clearance sale pricing, combined with attractive Federal, State and Utility rebates make the current offerings very tempting.

Most of the engineering going into the Highland refresh is designed to make those cars less expensive and faster to manufacture. Of course, some new enhancements might be customer centric, but mostly the new car will offer much of the same Tesla Ownership Experience.

Popular ultrasonics have already been deleted, along with radar. That ship has sailed.

No matter what improvements might come with the first run of Highlands, it is also certain that further enhancements will be coming down the line afterwards that buyers will want. You can never buy the Tesla of the Future, only what is coming down the assembly line for your delivery configuration.

Buyers often want to arbitrage their ordering strategy, but Tesla tends to hold their cards close to the vest, making order timing uncertain.

In fact you can never have the most up to date Tesla that is available today....as each factory has different components

 

[tesluv108]

Watching the inventory drop of the obsolete M3 when the new M3 coming soon. Who is actually buying these things?

Obsolete!? No way

 

[tesluv108]

I mean, an M3P for $50k is hard to beat, refresh imminent or not.

42,500 with tax credit, I loved the performance of my 2020, just couldn’t get over the duck bill front end so I had to sell. Hopefully the new front end is much better

 

[E90alex]

Highland should have the structural pack

Says who?

You are contradicting yourself. M3P cells will be prismatic and not strong enough to sustain a structural pack. They won’t use 4680 cells because there’s just not enough of them being made yet. In theory they can make a structural 2170 pack, but a structural pack doesn’t necessarily mean they can cram more cells into the same area. It’s just to reduce manufacturing complexity and cost.

 

[kpanda17]

And they might be wrong, but we know next gen and new vehicles will use castings and struct packs

Tesla Applied for New Certifications for Model 3 in China, Is Project Highland Coming?

Tesla is preparing to launch a redesigned version of the Model 3, with many new features under the hood. As rumors about an imminent launch abound, a new...

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