Rivian apparently building their own charging network

[Needsdecaf]

rivian is building 2 side by side systems. an L3 and a L2

I had them backwards. I thought that the L3's were going at the parks. Got it.

 

[jelloslug]

that is YOUR area, I have no need for fast chargers to be in MY area I need them to be where I'd like to travel to. and the EA network currently mimics the tesla network of a few years ago, which was fairly good for travel on the trunk N/S E/W routes.

The point is that while Plugshare shows a huge number of CCS locations, only a small percentage of them are more than one plug. There is also a heavy tendency of those single plug locations to be older and slower.

 

[mk677]

The point is that while Plugshare shows a huge number of CCS locations, only a small percentage of them are more than one plug. There is also a heavy tendency of those single plug locations to be older and slower.

you seem to continue insist that this is true regardless of what I have offered as evidence that it isn't.

 

[e of pi]

The point is that while Plugshare shows a huge number of CCS locations, only a small percentage of them are more than one plug. There is also a heavy tendency of those single plug locations to be older and slower.

you seem to continue insist that this is true regardless of what I have offered as evidence that it isn't.

I think what the NREL (thanks for the correction) data suggests is that if you were teleported to a random CCS station location, the expected result would be about 1.8 chargers at that spot today. Exclude EA/EC, and the average station has about 1.2 plugs. However, teleport to the average newer, higher power station, and it has about 3.8 plugs, with most being at least a 2-plug and many being 4-or-more plugs..and they're newer specifically because that's a lot of the types being installed by EA/EC, EVGo, and state DoT funding.

 

[jelloslug]

you seem to continue insist that this is true regardless of what I have offered as evidence that it isn't.

So your evidence is the only on that is correct and my evidence is meaningless because it does not support your theory?

 

[LoudMusic]

So your evidence is the only on that is correct and my evidence is meaningless because it does not support your theory?

Your evidence is that you used to own an i3 and at some unknown point in the past you had bad experiences with sparse slow chargers in your isolated area and @mk677 is providing current information about the entire country?

PlugShare as of right now showing only CCS sites with 200+ kW chargers.

 

[LoudMusic]

Well what do you know, there's a 4 plug station with 150-350 kW CCS in Greenville, SC.

Sam's Club | Greenville, SC | EV Station

Electrify America site with multiple DCFC units - (3) 350kW stations and (1) 150kW. Most of the stations offer CCS only; one station offers both CCS and CHAdeMO plugs. https://www.electrifyamerica.com/

www.plugshare.com

 

[LoudMusic]

Furthermore, 50kW+ is a fine thing to have available even if it is slower, it gives better piece of mine and indicates initiative to do more.

 

[LoudMusic]

first off tesla L2 destination units do not apply overstay fees at those units.
I do not know how other networks handle the issue. applying overstay fees is usually done at L3 fast charging units and it is a method to enforce the fact that those spots are for charging not for parking.

afraid of overstay fees scares people from charging?
I don't believe that is a factor. if you are in need of a charge you will charge regardless of overstay fees and you would want to avoid the fees by moving the car once the charge is complete. for the high speed L3 chargers the goal is to provide as many. opportunities for as many cars as possible to use the chargers, not to provide places to park. L2 units are a different animal and etiquette is that if your charging is complete to move out of the spot.
the public L2 units are usually used mainly for overnighting at hotels and are found at many shopping centers, airports and maybe in some parks where shorter term charging is common.
I don't usually bother using an L2 when stopped for a shopping trip, that is more opportunity charging than need based charging.

places where you'd park for awhile like long term parking at airports would be well served by skipping the costly L2 units and just make 110 outlets available. if I am away for a few days the 110 slow charging is all that is necessary. for example my local airport has a dozen or so chargepoint L2 units that offer free charging and no overstay fees but IMHO those L2s are wasteful, at the most a tesla would need eight or so hours to full charge and if I am out of town for a couple of days that spot remains blocked for the duration of my trip. If a 110 wall outlet was available I'd use that, the car could add a few hundred miles of range over a couple of days and nobody would be inconvenienced by a car blocking an L2 unit

I'm thinking specifically of L2 charging at state parks where someone would park for maybe 4 to 6 hours while they go for a hike and have a picnic. They're not going to want to monitor the car and return to take it off the charger in the middle of a hike. If that were somehow a requirement I think they just wouldn't plug in.

 

[mk677]

I'm thinking specifically of L2 charging at state parks where someone would park for maybe 4 to 6 hours while they go for a hike and have a picnic. They're not going to want to monitor the car and return to take it off the charger in the middle of a hike. If that were somehow a requirement I think they just wouldn't plug in.

it should depend on where the car's SOC is at, if the person arrives with a high SOC, they shouldn't be plugging in just to top off the car, if the car is at a low SOC it could easily charge for that 4-6 hour visit and that wouldn't trigger any sort of over stay charges. there aren't any L2 tesla units that are capable of issuing over stay charges so for those units the point is moot. and I haven't encountered L2 units that have them either.

 

[mk677]

So your evidence is the only on that is correct and my evidence is meaningless because it does not support your theory?

your evidence is way out of date rendering it to be irrelevant

 

[ljbad4life]

I am glad Rivian is installing/ creating it's own network. I find that a car company owning their network gives them an incentive to keep the equipment maintained. The charging network becomes an extended perception of the car company. I can't tell you how many 3rd party chargers I come across that are not only broken, but stay that way for months. When the maintenance is left up to property owners (which many 3rd party networks do), maintenance is an afterthought (like the air machine at gas stations)

 

[jelloslug]

Well what do you know, there's a 4 plug station with 150-350 kW CCS in Greenville, SC.

Sam's Club | Greenville, SC | EV Station

Electrify America site with multiple DCFC units - (3) 350kW stations and (1) 150kW. Most of the stations offer CCS only; one station offers both CCS and CHAdeMO plugs. https://www.electrifyamerica.com/

www.plugshare.com

I'm glad you cleared that up

 

[jelloslug]

your evidence is way out of date rendering it to be irrelevant

Go to plugshare and zoom into any metro area with just CCS plugs filtered and start clicking on them. You will find that the majority are 1 or 2 plugs with many of them slow rates. It's not hard to do.

 

[LoudMusic]

Go to plugshare and zoom into any metro area with just CCS plugs filtered and start clicking on them. You will find that the majority are 1 or 2 plugs with many of them slow rates. It's not hard to do.

You can also set the power requirement for the site. Slide it over to 120kw or even 200kw if you really want to get picky. It's not hard to do.

Lots of high speed charging isn't needed in metros. High speed charging is best for interstate travel. In the city people should be charging at home, or hotel, or work, or at the facilities they spend most of their time at.

I've also argued that it's less beneficial to have many plugs at fewer locations. It's better to have fewer plugs at many locations and a way to know in advance if the locations are busy, which is possible with the major charging networks like Tesla and Electrify America.

Using Atlanta metro as an example, they have about eight sites with 10 or 12 chargers each. But they could have twenty sites with 4 chargers each. There would be better than twice the convenience of location, and they could be at more diverse options of location. Such as more interstate restaurants, especially referring to the urban style. And that's pretty much exactly how CCS in Atlanta is done.

 

[mk677]

I've also argued that it's less beneficial to have many plugs at fewer locations. It's better to have fewer plugs at many locations and a way to know in advance if the locations are busy, which is possible with the major charging networks like Tesla and Electrify America.

agreed.
the unit count to me has little meaning, location counts are far more beneficial to travelers.
the exception to that is places like SoCAL or the bay area where there are massive amounts of teslas on the road necessitating charging stations with many chargers

 

[jelloslug]

You can also set the power requirement for the site. Slide it over to 120kw or even 200kw if you really want to get picky. It's not hard to do.

Lots of high speed charging isn't needed in metros. High speed charging is best for interstate travel. In the city people should be charging at home, or hotel, or work, or at the facilities they spend most of their time at.

I've also argued that it's less beneficial to have many plugs at fewer locations. It's better to have fewer plugs at many locations and a way to know in advance if the locations are busy, which is possible with the major charging networks like Tesla and Electrify America.

Using Atlanta metro as an example, they have about eight sites with 10 or 12 chargers each. But they could have twenty sites with 4 chargers each. There would be better than twice the convenience of location, and they could be at more diverse options of location. Such as more interstate restaurants, especially referring to the urban style. And that's pretty much exactly how CCS in Atlanta is done.

If by eight sites with 10 or 12 you mean one right? Because the EA location in Kennesaw is the only 10 stall CCS location anywhere near Atlanta.

 

[LoudMusic]

If by eight sites with 10 or 12 you mean one right? Because the EA location in Kennesaw is the only 10 stall CCS location anywhere near Atlanta.

No, the TESLA sites have 10 to 12, and the CCS sites have 4 to 8.

 

[21EV]

I am glad Rivian is installing/ creating it's own network. I find that a car company owning their network gives them an incentive to keep the equipment maintained. The charging network becomes an extended perception of the car company. I can't tell you how many 3rd party chargers I come across that are not only broken, but stay that way for months. When the maintenance is left up to property owners (which many 3rd party networks do), maintenance is an afterthought (like the air machine at gas stations)

That makes perfect sense but for my household when we go to two EVs I could see them being a Tesla and a Rivian. I wouldn’t be thrilled at having to deal with two networks though it isn’t likely we’d road trip with both cars!

 

[qdeathstar]

Well, sorta.

Both CCS and Chademo had DC fast charging as part of their specs/propsals prior to Tesla unveiling their Supercharger network. Their power capability wasn't as great as Tesla's, however... not to mention some other general clunkiness with the designs...

They existed but they weren’t a standard the way they are today.