Rivian vs Model Y

[gx9901]

Rivian losses $160,000 on every vehicle they sell. It better be well built. They will be out of business in 5 years. Executives are all leaving for a reason, they know.

I was floored when I learned how much Rivian was losing per vehicle. Did Tesla lose this much per vehicle (percentage-wise) early on? Seems like it would be pretty difficult for Rivian to bring the cost down enough to turn a profit. Unless that's what Tesla overcame before and thus it's at least possible.

I watched a video with R1S drag racing a Lamborghini Urus recently and it beat the Urus. But if you consider the cost to build the R1S, it should sell for more than the Urus, so I guess the results make sense?

 

[voxel]

Rivian losses $160,000 on every vehicle they sell. It better be well built. They will be out of business in 5 years. Executives are all leaving for a reason, they know.

They provide competition which will help Tesla improve their products

Anyhow, I think EV trucks will be a flop long term including the CyberTruck. They simple can’t tow due to aerodynamic reasons and until we have a battery energy density breakthrough they will be expensive bricks on wheels. I think Tesla realizes this and has delayed the CT until 4680 energy density has improved or is cheap enough for it to be profitable at an $80K price point.

Now… the R1S… I think even if Rivian goes under some carmaker will buy the remains and continue the SUV line.

 

[kelpcar]

Anyhow, I think EV trucks will be a flop long term including the CyberTruck. They simple can’t tow due to aerodynamic reasons and until we have a battery energy density breakthrough they will be expensive bricks on wheels. I think Tesla realizes this and has delayed the CT until 4680 energy density has improved or is cheap enough for it to be profitable at an $80K price point.

Except no one tows, so this is essentially irrelevant. The trucks don't suffer the hit when carrying cargo, it's just the trailers that don't pencil out well for the people who want to travel the country with a 5th wheel for some reason.

As for Rivian losing money per car - name any new car maker that didn't. Even Tesla, though they have the good fortune to get a production plant on the cheap, and access to a lot of tax credits (carbon and EV) to help it get to critical mass. As with most successes, a heavy dollop of timely luck.

Rivian is not losing 160k / vehicle produced. The ones selling at the pre Mar 2022 pricing are likely losing 10-20k, but simply dividing their capital expenditures by the number of cars sold is agenda based accounting.

 

[GBMaryland]

I think mine says 44 when it charges... I have a 60amp circuit (so 48amp charging). Ill check and reply back

I’m in exactly the same position as you… Yep it’s 60 A… Yep it’s 48 A when charging at 240 V.

Church is pretty well actually… usually blows away destinations chargers.

There is a big difference in charge speed during winter time if the car is not currently warm, or hasn’t been preconditioned. (In other words if you tell it to charge during the most cost-effective periods of the evening/overnight, the car will be cold, and it will take longer to charge. On the flip-side, if I just got home from a trip and I don’t have it delayed to charge, the charge will be significantly faster.)

 

[QuadB]

Except no one tows, so this is essentially irrelevant. The trucks don't suffer the hit when carrying cargo, it's just the trailers that don't pencil out well for the people who want to travel the country with a 5th wheel for some reason.

As for Rivian losing money per car - name any new car maker that didn't. Even Tesla, though they have the good fortune to get a production plant on the cheap, and access to a lot of tax credits (carbon and EV) to help it get to critical mass. As with most successes, a heavy dollop of timely luck.

Rivian is not losing 160k / vehicle produced. The ones selling at the pre Mar 2022 pricing are likely losing 10-20k, but simply dividing their capital expenditures by the number of cars sold is agenda based accounting.

You should do some research before you type

 

[Yelobird]

with most successes, a heavy dollop of timely luck.

Rivian is not losing 160k / vehicle produced. The ones selling at the pre Mar 2022 pricing are likely losing 10-20k, but simply dividing their capital expenditures by the number of cars sold is agenda based accounting.

Agenda based accounting. Like saying Teslas margins and success were based on luck. Lol

 

[kelpcar]

You should do some research before you type

what an ironic post.

 

[kelpcar]

Agenda based accounting. Like saying Teslas margins and success were based on luck. Lol

compare the expense Rivian will incur to build the second plant in GA with what Tesla spent to acquire NUMMI and tell me that this wasn't a lucky circumstance.

Meanwhile, I hope Quad will show me the parts list that make an R1T 240k to produce.

 

[Brian-MS90D]

compare the expense Rivian will incur to build the second plant in GA with what Tesla spent to acquire NUMMI and tell me that this wasn't a lucky circumstance.

Meanwhile, I hope Quad will show me the parts list that make an R1T 240k to produce.

Chiming in w/o reading anything prior just to confirm that Toyota essentially gave Tesla NUMMI and it is unlikely we'd have Tesla today without this "gift."

 

[laservet]

I've seen a few videos recently that note there is an issue with the Rivian battery, develops a hot spot during charging that causes the charge rate to drop off a cliff even with a sub-20% SOC. Anyone have any info?

A friend purchased the Hummer EV, can't drive it because it is still on the showroom floor with a Stop Sales order until its battery is replaced due to a leak that can cause water to enter the battery. He said he still loves the vehicle!

 

[BelugaWhale]

Have an order on a LR model Y but have now been looking into the Rivian R1S (given space/ability to fit 3 car seats/booster) etc.

One big question I have is why the difference in quoting home charging spec? Both home chargers do 11.5 kW / 48 amp. However Rivian is quoting 25miles/hr charging while the Model Y is quoting 44 miles/hr charging.

Can someone explain technically why the large difference? Is one company estimating the charging speed inaccurately?

I'm haven't been fully convinced the R1S had more space for cars eats or not...

 

[cusetownusa]

I'm haven't been fully convinced the R1S had more space for cars eats or not...

Great review.

I forgot how difficult and how much stuff you need traveling when kids are at that age and in car seats. Seems like this family would be better off keeping their van until at least 1 or 2 of the kids are out of a car seat. We almost exclusively use our Y when traveling but I only have 2 kids and they are 9 and 7, thus needing way less space.

 

[QuadB]

compare the expense Rivian will incur to build the second plant in GA with what Tesla spent to acquire NUMMI and tell me that this wasn't a lucky circumstance.

Meanwhile, I hope Quad will show me the parts list that make an R1T 240k to produce.

These are both public companies. I would suggest going over both of their latest quarterly results.

Tesla purchased Fremont for $42,000,000.00 in 2010, 13 years ago. You couldn't give real estate away back then especially auto real estate. Tesla has since built multiple plants for billions each. Fremont spend is irrelevant.

 

[Eto Demerzel]

Rivian put the money into the product. They are built to an amazing standard, well above Tesla.
If I could afford one, I would have one.

As for Rivian's survival, the same things were said about Tesla for a long time.

Rivian is putting out a superior product that will last. If you're "taking a risk" on ev's, it's one of the better choices.

 

[BelugaWhale]

Rivian put the money into the product. They are built to an amazing standard, well above Tesla.
If I could afford one, I would have one.

As for Rivian's survival, the same things were said about Tesla for a long time.

Rivian is putting out a superior product that will last. If you're "taking a risk" on ev's, it's one of the better choices.

There are reviews now that rivian build quality is not ehat it used to be and going downhill

 

[Eto Demerzel]

There are reviews now that rivian build quality is not ehat it used to be and going downhill

If Tesla is any measure, that doesn't matter...

 

[kelpcar]

These are both public companies. I would suggest going over both of their latest quarterly results.

Tesla purchased Fremont for $42,000,000.00 in 2010, 13 years ago. You couldn't give real estate away back then especially auto real estate. Tesla has since built multiple plants for billions each. Fremont spend is irrelevant.

So cutting to the chase, Rivian does not lose 160k on each vehicle. Got it. (already knew this)

 

[nate704]

Rivian put the money into the product. They are built to an amazing standard, well above Tesla.
If I could afford one, I would have one.

As for Rivian's survival, the same things were said about Tesla for a long time.

Rivian is putting out a superior product that will last. If you're "taking a risk" on ev's, it's one of the better choices.

Rivian marketing department?
Welcome to Tesla community!

 

[voxel]

Except no one tows, so this is essentially irrelevant. The trucks don't suffer the hit when carrying cargo, it's just the trailers that don't pencil out well for the people who want to travel the country with a 5th wheel for some reason.

Doesn’t matter. An $80K EV sports truck that can’t tow and has the efficiency of a brick will sell maybe 100K units before plateauing. Lightnings are sitting on lots and used R1Ts are selling below new MSRP. Large expensive EV trucks are niche products. With DC charging rates so high and low efficiency, the cost of ownership isn’t such a big win for the EV truck.

Now… if Tesla built a EV Ford Maverick competitor at $40K it would sell millions. We already see consumers are very price sensitive with vehicles. EVs costing over $50K are sitting on dealership lots whereas there have been reported fights over Bolts on lots.

 

[woolymammoth17]

Over engineered and rock solid, I found. Very much unlike my vibrating Plaid that Tesla deems is “Normal”….
@WilliamG

Is there a thread/post where I can read more about your vibration issue?