S85 Battery Degradation

[MyJoule]

5/2014 build with about 45K miles 233 @ 90% (236 when new) Several long road trips using superchargers, 90% is what I set the charge limit to anytime we aren't traveling long distance, 100% when traveling long distance, but rarely wait until the supercharger says it's full.

10/2014 build with about 25K miles 236 @ 90% (239 when new) only 2 long distance trips, so less supercharging than the other one, 90% is what I set the charging limit to on this one

Both located in AZ where it get's pretty hot.

 

[Kristoffer Helle]

155.000km

 

[supratachophobia]

155.000km
View attachment 313693

Well that is pretty awesome, raspberry pi???

 

[aerodyne]

It has been colder here and the car has been stored at a lower charge, lost a mile or so.

27k miles, 90% is 241.

 

[scottm]

@Kristoffer Helle -- I want!

Tell us what you've got there hooked up to the OBD port (I presume) please.

That's very Tesla specific data being shown.

Are you logging that data too, or just an instantaneous display --- I'd take either!

 

[Canuck]

Tell us what you've got there hooked up to the OBD port (I presume) please.

Yes, please tell us @Kristoffer Helle. I want one!

 

[supratachophobia]

Yes, please tell us @Kristoffer Helle. I want one!

I assume that's a CANbus reader. They high quality ones can be had for $80 and the proper customer adapter from ebay for $15. You'll get loads of good info from it. It will tell you *exactly* how much range you've lost.

 

[darxsys]

I recently got a used 2015 85D with 35000 miles. Today I did a road trip, 140 miles. The car claims I used 47.4kwh to do that, pretty average. However, I started with the battery at 87% and ended with battery at 23%. That means 65% usage. So when I do 47.4 / 0.65, that means my battery is at 72kwh now. Distance wise, that’s 140.3/0.65 = 215 mile range at full charge!! I am very worried right now and will call Tesla first thing tomorrow to schedule an appointment, that seems very bad. I hope they don’t brush me off. Any advice on how to handle this is welcome. 215 miles seems far away from 250ish I should be seeing. Ill try to charge to 100% tomorrow to see what full charge really gives me.

 

[MyJoule]

With your WH/Mile usage, and the likely cold temperature, your car did fine- Elevation, Temperature and Wind have a large effect on the energy usage. When I had my 85 in the Seattle area last summer, I never saw less than 320WH/Mile due to all the elevation changes. We have an 85D also, The mileage estimates on a 85D is based on something like 290WH/Mile- You can only get that sort of consumption on a flat road at 60MPH and an ambient temperature around 70F and no wind. There is a thread around here somewhere with more information like that. I think your car is working as advertised. On our 2015 85D we see usage around 300WH/Mile at 75 MPH on our trips to PHX, but there is an 1000 ft elevation change down from Tucson- and it's usually pretty warm here. On the way back at 75MPH we get about 350WH/Mile. We did Buckeye to Indio (217 miles ) on I-10 the other day( temps were in the 60s and there was a slight tail wind) and it used almost 90% of the charge, the speed limits are between 70 and 75 on that stretch of I-10

One more thing, did you have the Heater on? That uses significant power and therefore range.

I hope that helps...

 

[darxsys]

With your WH/Mile usage, and the likely cold temperature, your car did fine- Elevation, Temperature and Wind have a large effect on the energy usage. When I had my 85 in the Seattle area last summer, I never saw less than 320WH/Mile due to all the elevation changes. We have an 85D also, The mileage estimates on a 85D is based on something like 290WH/Mile- You can only get that sort of consumption on a flat road at 60MPH and an ambient temperature around 70F and no wind. There is a thread around here somewhere with more information like that. I think your car is working as advertised. On our 2015 85D we see usage around 300WH/Mile at 75 MPH on our trips to PHX, but there is an 1000 ft elevation change down from Tucson- and it's usually pretty warm here. On the way back at 75MPH we get about 350WH/Mile. We did Buckeye to Indio (217 miles ) on I-10 the other day( temps were in the 60s and there was a slight tail wind) and it used almost 90% of the charge, the speed limits are between 70 and 75 on that stretch of I-10

One more thing, did you have the Heater on? That uses significant power and therefore range.

I hope that helps...

I see. Thanks for the info, that helps. I am not yet sure how to exactly adjust these calculations then, especially when it comes to 47kwh representing 65% of the battery charge. That would still mean that the car has 72kwh at full charge, a far cry from 85.

Yes, it was relatively cold (32 - 38 degrees during the whole trip) and there are certain elevation changes from Seattle to Vancouver, especially on the last portion of the trip, which all affects range for sure, but no idea how to explain this fact regarding 72kwh as full capacity.

I did go to a supercharger and filled up to around 56%, at which point the car showed around 150mile rated range, which would bring me to 267 rated on a full charge. Weird.

 

[aerodyne]

I recently got a used 2015 85D with 35000 miles. Today I did a road trip, 140 miles. The car claims I used 47.4kwh to do that, pretty average. However, I started with the battery at 87% and ended with battery at 23%. That means 65% usage. So when I do 47.4 / 0.65, that means my battery is at 72kwh now. Distance wise, that’s 140.3/0.65 = 215 mile range at full charge!! I am very worried right now and will call Tesla first thing tomorrow to schedule an appointment, that seems very bad. I hope they don’t brush me off. Any advice on how to handle this is welcome. 215 miles seems far away from 250ish I should be seeing. Ill try to charge to 100% tomorrow to see what full charge really gives me.

My calcs show your full range at that (338 Wh/mi) rate is 229.

My 7k mile average is 309. Most of that high speed 65-80 highway x country trip. Never drove more than 140 miles between charges, high 93%, low 29%.

As hard as it is to do, don't worry about range. If your HV batt really does degrade in 3 years you might be able to get a new one under warranty!

 

[MyJoule]

I see. Thanks for the info, that helps. I am not yet sure how to exactly adjust these calculations then, especially when it comes to 47kwh representing 65% of the battery charge. That would still mean that the car has 72kwh at full charge, a far cry from 85.

Yes, it was relatively cold (32 - 38 degrees during the whole trip) and there are certain elevation changes from Seattle to Vancouver, especially on the last portion of the trip, which all affects range for sure, but no idea how to explain this fact regarding 72kwh as full capacity.

I did go to a supercharger and filled up to around 56%, at which point the car showed around 150mile rated range, which would bring me to 267 rated on a full charge. Weird.

No problem- 267 on a full charge at that temperature is very good- The usage is about right for those temps too. Keep in mind the usage of the Climate system isn't counted in the displayed consumption. There is a thread around here that shows the 85KW battery is actually less than 85KW even new-due to what Tesla keeps in reserve at the top and bottom of the cell charge. I think that is one of the reasons they have gone to "Long, Mid and Short " range labels - I think your car is likely just fine, Enjoy it and don't worry about the battery degradation - The way Tesla manages the battery is by far the best. We've been charging our cars to 90% since we got them, and all are doing fine. Just plug it in when you get home and you'll never have to worry about it (or not for a long time) There used to be a statement in the owners documents something to the effect: "A plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla" That's been our usage pattern - I hope the battery lasts 15 years by doing shallow cycles in our daily usage pattern. We've rarely run the battery down below 20% and we only charge to 100% just before we take it on a road trip.

 

[aerodyne]

Myjoule +1...

Useable capacity of the BT85 pack is 77.5 Kw. I used that number to figure the actual range I mentioned earlier.

 

[gmontem]

As of last Friday night, my 2012 S-85 with 88,560 miles had 216 rated miles at 90% SOC. Is that normal?

 

[David99]

As of last Friday night, my 2012 S-85 with 88,560 miles had 216 rated miles at 90% SOC. Is that normal?

For the age and mileage it's OK.

 

[Brass Guy]

At 140,000 miles my S85 now reads 218 at 90%.
It had been very consistent for years - until about a month ago, when it suddenly lost 3 range miles. I suspect the recent drop is either due to my mostly shallow cycles lately or it's simply time to show real degradation.
I usually charge to 80% and rarely go below 35%. I've charged to 100% maybe a half dozen times since it was new.

I'm pleased with this number; especially with its consistency. I still expect many years more from this battery.

 

[Lasttoy]

I have noticed that after v9 install, my milage usage has really inreased. Like using 10 to 20 miles more for same trip.
I can still set high charge to over 230. But never do it.
I got new motor 2 weeks ago, and it has not affected my milage.

 

[SmartElectric]

2013 Model S 85 with 130,000 km on original "A" battery pack (88 kW supercharging limited).
415 km at 100% SOC compared to 425 km new.
No range loss at all in past 4 years and 90,000 km driven in that time.


Charged to 90% daily and driven mostly short trips <20 km daily with longer 200 km weekend trips.
Charged to 100% most Friday evenings to prep for weekend trips.
Supercharged 2x week recently, but average 3x per month for past 4 years.

 

[Rocky_H]

Keep in mind the usage of the Climate system isn't counted in the displayed consumption.

That is misleading, probably unintentionally. Climate energy usage is included in the displayed consumption in the trip meters when the car is in a drive gear. All energy usage is being included in that state. But when the car is in Park or has turned itself off, that usage is not being counted.

 

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

2013 Model S 85 with 130,000 km on original "A" battery pack (88 kW supercharging limited).
415 km at 100% SOC compared to 425 km new.
No range loss at all in past 4 years and 90,000 km driven in that time.


Charged to 90% daily and driven mostly short trips <20 km daily with longer 200 km weekend trips.
Charged to 100% most Friday evenings to prep for weekend trips.
Supercharged 2x week recently, but average 3x per month for past 4 years.

Ah! This was the post i read last night and now i see i replied this morning in the "wrong" thread, so here it goes again....

Wow!
Is that in typical or rated range?
I see you are in Canada and i'm not sure range is counted the same way as in Europe (range is counted differently in US or EU cars), but as far as i know my late 2014 S 85 never even had 415 km of typical range when new, let alone after the 85.000 km it has now...
I currently get 380 km of typical range, at best (usually i get 370/375).