Seat Belt Malfunction - Had to Cut it to get my son out

[dhanson865]

Sympathy for the mishap. Tesla will fix it free. Not sure I agree with your advice that everyone carry a seatbelt cutter around. If you're looking to reduce the relative risk of rare problems you'd be better off statistically carrying an epi-pen or a fire extinguisher. I understand the threat seems very real to you because you've been through it. Sorry I'm kind of a relative risk nerd.

A common item for this concern is a multipurpose tool that works as a belt cutter or window breaker.

I've never bothered to get one but I've seen a lot of people online swear by having them for emergencies. After an accident one could free someone that is pinned or trapped by the seat belt or by when the doors can't be opened normally due to damage or obstruction.

But odds are if you live in an urban area you can just wait for help. Still if you have small children or live west of the Mississippi in a wide open spaces kind of way you might want the extra insurance?

 

[anonim1979]

It is not a malfunction.

Ratchet locks itself if pulled fast. By design. It will release if seat belt retract a little by itself.
Probably kid jerked seat belt when there was no slack at all.

 

[daapower]

It is not a malfunction.

Ratchet locks itself if pulled fast. By design. It will release if seat belt retract a little by itself.
Probably kid jerked seat belt when there was no slack at all.

yes if you quickly pull on a seat belt it is going to lock by design. But you must've missed the part where the belt originally had some slack but by then end when i got to it, there was almost no slack. just enough to get my fingers in to help create some space between it and my sons neck.

If it was really going to release, it wouldn't have gotten to the point where the slack was slowly diminishing to the point where between 7-8 people the best option was to cut the belt or dial 9-1-1.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Can you please describe how a seat belt which has been unlatched from the buckle can trap someone? I'm not disputing what you said, I'm just having a hard time visualizing it.

 

[BrettS]

Can you please describe how a seat belt which has been unlatched from the buckle can trap someone? I'm not disputing what you said, I'm just having a hard time visualizing it.

Yes, this is the part I’m having trouble with. I’m not doubting the OP’s story, but I feel that there is some crucial piece of information that was inadvertently left out. If the buckle was unlatched then it must have gotten caught on the booster seat or wrapped around his son or something in order for it to continue to be a danger. Knowing what it got caught on is essential for anyone to be able to avoid accidentally recreating this scary situation.

 

[GoTzillaR]

Maybe the buckle got stuck with the booster?

 

[daapower]

A common item for this concern is a multipurpose tool that works as a belt cutter or window breaker.

I've never bothered to get one but I've seen a lot of people online swear by having them for emergencies. After an accident one could free someone that is pinned or trapped by the seat belt or by when the doors can't be opened normally due to damage or obstruction.

But odds are if you live in an urban area you can just wait for help. Still if you have small children or live west of the Mississippi in a wide open spaces kind of way you might want the extra insurance?

yes that is what I purchased...its only $5 and useful if you or some other car has had an accident and people need to get out and are trapped.

The purpose of it I think is to get people out if the car is on fire or something...but with how buggy the FWD's are...it might be useful to have this tool to punch out if there was an issue. I just mainly want it as for peace of mind if the seat belt ever does it again even if the chances are going to be super rare.


Anyway, I am bringing it in on wednesday...they don't stock seat belts so it will take them over a week just to get them. I asked them that my main concern is figuring why it did it and making sure it doesn't happen again. Hopefully they are able to figure out why it happened. I will be disappointed if they just replace it out and

 

[daapower]

Yes, this is the part I’m having trouble with. I’m not doubting the OP’s story, but I feel that there is some crucial piece of information that was inadvertently left out. If the buckle was unlatched then it must have gotten caught on the booster seat or wrapped around his son or something in order for it to continue to be a danger. Knowing what it got caught on is essential for anyone to be able to avoid accidentally recreating this scary situation.

it wasn't caught on the booster but it was caught on my son. It looked as if the loop caught onto him and somehow retracted to the point where he couldn't get out. I was driving so I'm not sure of the full sequence of events. But from what my wife told me was that as we approached he wanted to take off the seat belt..and as i braked the thing tightened. My guess is he was trying to maybe get it over his head and when I braked maybe it retracted and catching him. Then as we were in stop and go to get into the parking lot...it was constantly locking retracting?

but its not like it was emergency braking..we were literally moving like 2-3mph

I have a picture of it if tesla needs but it was really close up as my wife was taking it to explain to tesla roadside. in hindsight it would've helped if we had a video of it but documenting it wasn't really top priority

 

[Cosmacelf]

Ok, re-reading the first post, I am guessing that somehow the toddler got his neck in line with where the seat belt would retract to. Meaning all the way near the door, with his head near the door, the seat belt across his neck and then the rest of his body towards the inside of the car. The seat belt would have been almost fully retracted, trapping his neck.

As far as avoiding the situation in the future, well, make sure you don't pull out the seat belt all the way (that for sure enables the one way ratchet). In this case, it might have been a seat belt mechanism flaw, which presumably is a one of situation.

Hmmm, but my son has complained about the seat belt locking before when I've braked. I've always ignored it since he was always able to clear it and he complains a lot . I think I'll do some tests and see if I can replicate this situation where the seat belt doesn't unlock after a braking event.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Well, I'm pretty sure your son learned a valuable lesson that day - don't remove your seat belt until Mom or Dad say so! While no doubt an unfortunate and scary incident for all involved, there are far more dangerous ways to learn that lesson.

 

[Pando]

I understand that the feature is needed to tighten the car seat, but it should not be ratcheting so close to the full retraction point that the only thing between the seat belt and the seat itself is someone's neck, and every movement tightens it further.

Seems like a flaw in the design. A rare event, yes, but I can imagine a situation where there is no one in the back to help a child who gets into this situation while you're driving and, thinking that your child fell asleep, you're not even aware of what's actually happening.

That's really scary.

 

[vandacca]

I understand that the feature is needed to tighten the car seat, but it should not be ratcheting so close to the full retraction point that the only thing between the seat belt and the seat itself is someone's neck, and every movement tightens it further.

Seems like a flaw in the design. A rare event, yes, but I can imagine a situation where there is no one in the back to help a child who gets into this situation while you're driving and, thinking that your child fell asleep, you're not even aware of what's actually happening.

That's really scary.

Remember, the primary purpose of the seatbelt is to restrain you in an accident. It would need to be able to do that in almost of the full range of the belt, since there are many different body types and use-cases (eg. restraining a child seat or an object like a picture frame).

 

[Pando]

Remember, the primary purpose of the seatbelt is to restrain you in an accident. It would need to be able to do that in almost of the full range of the belt, since there are many different body types and use-cases (eg. restraining a child seat or an object like a picture frame).

Yes of course. Most seat belts have a mechanism that locks the belt instantly in case of frontal collision. This is why you can still move around the seat when driving normally--the seat belt is usually loose until it detects strong deceleration or accident. Try it.

This thread talks about the ratcheting feature, which is completely different, and it's used to secure a child car seat into place. My point was that the ratchet should NOT be able to lock the belt when it's unbuckled and almost fully retracted into the spool, because it can strangle someone whose neck is still behind the belt.

I smell a recall coming.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Yes of course. Most seat belts have a mechanism that locks the belt instantly in case of frontal collision. This is why you can still move around the seat when driving normally--the seat belt is usually loose until it detects strong deceleration or accident. Try it.

This thread talks about the ratcheting feature, which is completely different, and it's used to secure a child car seat into place. My point was that the ratchet should NOT be able to lock the belt when it's unbuckled and almost fully retracted into the spool, because it can strangle someone whose neck is still behind the belt.

I smell a recall coming.

Is there any evidence this is contrary to how seat-belts are designed to function? There would only be a safety recall if this is not how seatbelts tend to operate (basically a defect).

A quick google suggests all seatbelts generally operate this way in ratchet mode, and has a risk of strangulation if a child manages to slip their head under the belt (that's why having a belt cutter handy is a good idea).
You are being redirected...

 

[Az_Rael]

Hmmm, but my son has complained about the seat belt locking before when I've braked. I've always ignored it since he was always able to clear it and he complains a lot . I think I'll do some tests and see if I can replicate this situation where the seat belt doesn't unlock after a braking event.

My front passenger seat belt will do this. I have gotten "stuck" in it before, where it locks upon braking, and does not unlock and continues to ratchet tighter when you move (like one of those finger trap things). Only way to get it loose is to unlatch it, let it retract all the way in and pull it out again. Its very annoying, especially on long trips.

 

[Pando]

I tried it with a new Toyota Avalon Hybrid (Limited). While sitting on the back seat, and without buckling the belt, I pulled the seat belt all the way out and then let it go back slowly while pulling back repeatedly - I could hear and feel that the ratchet mode was enabled. Every movement tightened the belt. The ratchet disengaged when the seat belt was about 11 inches away from the seat back, which was still enough to slip my head through. The belt was loose once the ratchet action stopped, and I could pull it back out.

It would be a completely different matter if this was a much larger person who is panicking, or a child in a car seat that got lodged between the belt and the seat, and there is no way to turn the car seat around.

What is the ratchet disengage distance on your car? I would say that if it's less than that (11") it can be dangerous.

 

[hill]

.........snip......... I had to hold the seatbelt in place in order for it not to choke my son.
At this point my wife took some pictures and called Tesla roadside ......snip........

can you post (at least) one so it makes the phenomena more understandable?
.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I tried it with a new Toyota Avalon Hybrid (Limited). While sitting on the back seat, and without buckling the belt, I pulled the seat belt all the way out and then let it go back slowly while pulling back repeatedly - I could hear and feel that the ratchet mode was enabled. Every movement tightened the belt. The ratchet disengaged when the seat belt was about 11 inches away from the seat back, which was still enough to slip my head through. The belt was loose once the ratchet action stopped, and I could pull it back out.

It would be a completely different matter if this was a much larger person who is panicking, or a child in a car seat that got lodged between the belt and the seat, and there is no way to turn the car seat around.

What is the ratchet disengage distance on your car? I would say that if it's less than that (11") it can be dangerous.

I just tried this with my Model X. My back seat seat belts disengage their ratchet at about 11" also. I'm not surprised that it is similar to your car - I mean Tesla ALMOST CERTAINLY buys the seat belt mechanism from a third party supplier that makes seat belts for tons of cars. I also wouldn't be surprised if things like distance before seat belt unratchets is set in some regulation somewhere.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I tried it with a new Toyota Avalon Hybrid (Limited). While sitting on the back seat, and without buckling the belt, I pulled the seat belt all the way out and then let it go back slowly while pulling back repeatedly - I could hear and feel that the ratchet mode was enabled. Every movement tightened the belt. The ratchet disengaged when the seat belt was about 11 inches away from the seat back, which was still enough to slip my head through. The belt was loose once the ratchet action stopped, and I could pull it back out.

I tried this is a friend's Subaru last night and it behaved the same way. While the seatbelt didn't keep retracting if I didn't touch it, I was unable to get any more slack. I simply unbuckled it, let it finish retracting and then I was able to use it like normal. Sounds to me like the seatbelt worked like the seatbelts of any other car when in ratchet mode.