Self-driving cars UK Discussion

[Dilly]

They can write Tesla on the wall which excites 9 year olds, what more do you want?

You do watch people arrive on here, all excited about buying a Tesla to a level they've never been with a car before, then they go through the torture of EDDs moving around, enticed into wantng to know which ship they've on, details about whether there is a hook for a grocery bag still in the frunk or not, have slightly mixed emotions following the collection experience, seduced by the instant torque and the neighbours all gathering round to take a look, then the grelins start to surface that were initially over looked but become an increasing irrirtant. Then they try to do something even marginally out of the norm with service and get left unable to talk to someone, and slowly they fall away with buyers remorse and in many cases not unreasonably.

You also get the ones that feel very differently, it takes all sorts and neither are wrong as such. I don't like when people are told they should just sell the car if they don't like it. Looking at the nuimber of cars for sale, there are plenty that are just selling it. I think the ones who stick around and comment actually want things to change, and want the car to live up to the promises, rather than just throwing in the towel and flogging the car on, because lets face it, unless you're locking into a really poor finance agreement you're not going to take a bath on depreciation at the moment.

Specifically on FSD, I think any advertisment that says "coming soon" needs to be reasonably credible, and "soon" in the context of a car which most people keep for 3 years on average needs to be within 6 months or so. Maybe people need to lobby trading standards, I know they've been made to make changes before regarding matters such as "after savings" prices etc. which they used to lead on.

I agree entirely. When I bought, city streets were “coming soon”
In March, my car is 3 years old. If “soon” has not happened, I will go to trading standards as that’s when I would normally change it.
Having purchased FSD, EAP made it almost valueless overnight but for the promise of ‘soon’.
One wonders how some of the phantom braking and other quirks have gone under the radar of the Ministry of Transport.
There is much I like about the car but there are also a number of things I don’t like. I’m just glad I didn’t spend more by buying an S or an X

 

[Fursty Ferret]

I agree entirely. When I bought, city streets were “coming soon”
In March, my car is 3 years old. If “soon” has not happened, I will go to trading standards as that’s when I would normally change it.
Having purchased FSD, EAP made it almost valueless overnight but for the promise of ‘soon’.
One wonders how some of the phantom braking and other quirks have gone under the radar of the Ministry of Transport.
There is much I like about the car but there are also a number of things I don’t like. I’m just glad I didn’t spend more by buying an S or an X

You don't need to bother with Trading Standards - just write to Tesla setting out your claim (paid for FSD, got nothing like described), and when they invite you to swivel, use Money Claim Online to sue them in the small claims court.

They'll fold and refund you at the last minute, but admittedly will probably pull FSD from your car at the same time.

I did whine to the ASA about the misrepresented capabilities on the Tesla website, but they say that it isn't something they're responsible for.

 

[Durzel]

I'm inclined to do the same to be honest.

Like @Dilly my car will be 3 years old in March, and it's safe to say that "Automatic driving on city streets" (which is FSD beta) won't be available here by then. That much is an absolute certainty. I'd go further and say we won't see FSD beta over here for at least another 3 years, past the point I would expect to be keeping this car.

In the event of a small claim Tesla may well blame UNECE entirely and/or point to small print on the order page saying that features are subject to regulatory conditions. I don't know how credible that claim would be in court, but I'd be interested to test it.

As @Dilly said, the release of EAP made FSD practically worthless since the only thing it had after that point was "Traffic Light Stop and Go". As it is everyone has that feature now, so FSD adds literally nothing on top of EAP at twice the price, beyond the nebulous promise of getting something in the future.

The more I write about this the more inclined I am to go down the small claim route, to be honest.

 

[KennethS]

I'm inclined to do the same to be honest.

Like @Dilly my car will be 3 years old in March, and it's safe to say that "Automatic driving on city streets" (which is FSD beta) won't be available here by then. That much is an absolute certainty. I'd go further and say we won't see FSD beta over here for at least another 3 years, past the point I would expect to be keeping this car.

In the event of a small claim Tesla may well blame UNECE entirely and/or point to small print on the order page saying that features are subject to regulatory conditions. I don't know how credible that claim would be in court, but I'd be interested to test it.

As @Dilly said, the release of EAP made FSD practically worthless since the only thing it had after that point was "Traffic Light Stop and Go". As it is everyone has that feature now, so FSD adds literally nothing on top of EAP at twice the price, beyond the nebulous promise of getting something in the future.

The more I write about this the more inclined I am to go down the small claim route, to be honest.

When we ordered our 2019 M3P, EAP was not offered or that is what we most likely would have opted for. However, on the early UK Model 3 orders, FSD was offered at a £1,000 discount. I wonder what the cost of EAP was when first offered? We paid £4,800 after discount for FSD. Value for money? No. But we like the features of EAP (enough to include it on our Model Y). So I feel we overpaid for something that does not (yet) exist but can't say the entire price paid should be returned. Rather it would be the delta between what we paid for FSD and the cost of EAP.

 

[randompixel]

I'm inclined to do the same to be honest.

Like @Dilly my car will be 3 years old in March, and it's safe to say that "Automatic driving on city streets" (which is FSD beta) won't be available here by then. That much is an absolute certainty. I'd go further and say we won't see FSD beta over here for at least another 3 years, past the point I would expect to be keeping this car.

In the event of a small claim Tesla may well blame UNECE entirely and/or point to small print on the order page saying that features are subject to regulatory conditions. I don't know how credible that claim would be in court, but I'd be interested to test it.

As @Dilly said, the release of EAP made FSD practically worthless since the only thing it had after that point was "Traffic Light Stop and Go". As it is everyone has that feature now, so FSD adds literally nothing on top of EAP at twice the price, beyond the nebulous promise of getting something in the future.

The more I write about this the more inclined I am to go down the small claim route, to be honest.

Traffic light stop and go is different to traffic light chime.

 

[Roy B]

2022.24.5 has removed "FSD Visualization Preview" and "Traffic Light Control" when car is outside the US

The latest 2022.24.5 version has removed the ability to enable "FSD Visualization Preview" and "Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control" when using the car outside the US, even if you have the Full Self Driving subscription.... This used to work fine until the last version, but this version has...

teslamotorsclub.com

What I would take away from that post is that if you take the car outside the supported region (i.e. the region the map data and nav data is for) then some FSD features are no longer available. The example in question was taking a US car (which will have North American map data) to South America.

So yes, it may well be that that, going forward, UK cars will have the same limitations when driven outside Europe. Not an easy one to test, though.

 

[Dilly]

Traffic light stop and go is different to traffic light chime.

Yes, that’s true. But it’s a bit pointless. It’s no use if you are turning and the circumstances where it can be used (officially) are pretty limited. Certainly round here!

 

[GRiLLA]

Yes, that’s true. But it’s a bit pointless. It’s no use if you are turning and the circumstances where it can be used (officially) are pretty limited. Certainly round here!

I miss it when driving the A40 out of London, on my previous FSD car I could keep in AutoPilot the entire way. I don't miss it £3K however.

I'm mainly interested in what FSD will bring in the future vs what EAP will bring. When the new motorway driving regulations come in, and we assume that isn't 'city streets' so included in EAP, or as it's even more 'full' does that make it FSD? We really could do with a better definition of how future features will be assessed between the two.

 

[Buzzliteyear]

Traffic light stop and go is different to traffic light chime.

It doesn't even get that right most of the time for me.

 

[Buzzliteyear]

Luckily I only went for EAP and they have made that worse over the last couple of months.

 

[DrJFoster]

Motivated by the thread I thought about complaining to the advertising standards authority. To do so I went to collect evidence, and the current wording on the Tesla website for FSD when buying is

Upcoming:​

1. Autosteer on city streets

Whereas in the US it says "Coming soon"

My linguistic skills aren't that good to know the relevant immediacy of Upcoming v Coming soon but you can't help thinking they're choosing their words very carefully now, maybe as a result of complaints.

 

[Dilly]

I’m pretty sure that city streets were “coming soon” in Feb/March 2020
Does anyone have a screenshot from then?

 

[Durzel]

I’m pretty sure that city streets were “coming soon” in Feb/March 2020
Does anyone have a screenshot from then?

This is from March 20th 2020, which is after both of us would've ordered (note also Enhanced Summon - promised and vanished, I completely forgot about that):

 

[Dilly]

This is from March 20th 2020, which is after both of us would've ordered (note also Enhanced Summon - promised and vanished, I completely forgot about that):

View attachment 847003

Even worse than I thought. Park and retrieve eh

 

[browellm]

Even worse than I thought. Park and retrieve eh

Rapidly upgraded to bait and switch

 

[joexn]

What I would take away from that post is that if you take the car outside the supported region (i.e. the region the map data and nav data is for) then some FSD features are no longer available. The example in question was taking a US car (which will have North American map data) to South America.

So yes, it may well be that that, going forward, UK cars will have the same limitations when driven outside Europe. Not an easy one to test, though.

You're completely wrong. This owner subscribed to FSD, which is US-only but they live in Brazil. They lied to pay monthly & Tesla has caught on.

 

[joexn]

This is from March 20th 2020, which is after both of us would've ordered (note also Enhanced Summon - promised and vanished, I completely forgot about that):

View attachment 847003

Enhanced Summon was renamed to Smart Summon....

 

[Durzel]

Enhanced Summon was renamed to Smart Summon....

Well, whatever it is called it most definitely did not and still does not “come and find you in a car park”.

 

[joexn]

Well, whatever it is called it most definitely did not and still does not “come and find you in a car park”.

Due to ECE regulations outside of Teslas control. I did make a video of it with the restrictions disabled so I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Mrklaw]

They can write Tesla on the wall which excites 9 year olds, what more do you want?

You do watch people arrive on here, all excited about buying a Tesla to a level they've never been with a car before, then they go through the torture of EDDs moving around, enticed into wantng to know which ship they've on, details about whether there is a hook for a grocery bag still in the frunk or not, have slightly mixed emotions following the collection experience, seduced by the instant torque and the neighbours all gathering round to take a look, then the grelins start to surface that were initially over looked but become an increasing irrirtant. Then they try to do something even marginally out of the norm with service and get left unable to talk to someone, and slowly they fall away with buyers remorse and in many cases not unreasonably.

You also get the ones that feel very differently, it takes all sorts and neither are wrong as such. I don't like when people are told they should just sell the car if they don't like it. Looking at the nuimber of cars for sale, there are plenty that are just selling it. I think the ones who stick around and comment actually want things to change, and want the car to live up to the promises, rather than just throwing in the towel and flogging the car on, because lets face it, unless you're locking into a really poor finance agreement you're not going to take a bath on depreciation at the moment.

Specifically on FSD, I think any advertisment that says "coming soon" needs to be reasonably credible, and "soon" in the context of a car which most people keep for 3 years on average needs to be within 6 months or so. Maybe people need to lobby trading standards, I know they've been made to make changes before regarding matters such as "after savings" prices etc. which they used to lead on.

I’ve been on BMW forums tracking boats from the USA and webcams etc almost to the extent we do on here. I’m sure its the same on a bunch of other make-specific forums.