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Service says $22k for new battery on 2012 Model S

goodbadboys9

Member
Apr 22, 2018
100
23
NJ
I’ll just pay the 5k to Gruber Motors in AZ if/when this occurs in my car.
5K from Gruber Motors seems like a good option but getting the car to AZ & getting it back will be an additional couple of 1000$ at least if you are not located on the west coast
 
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rns-e

Member
May 5, 2013
481
146
Denmark
I’ll just pay the 5k to Gruber Motors in AZ if/when this occurs in my car.
Pay for what? That he cut away the 'dead flesh'?

I know it seems attractive, but you have to trust that they seal the battery correctly and that it does not happen any of the other cells, and that it's not the BMS etc etc etc.

They are not doing a refurb of the your battery - to me it seems very expensive for what he is actually doing. It's all man hours. I don't know what the going rate for a skilled man hour at a dealership is in the US, but here in Denmark you would get about 25-30 hours. With Scan My Tesla or similar products you would more or less be able to pinpoint the module in 30 seconds, then take the pack out, open it, find the cell within the identified module and then put the battery back together.

And people are complaining about the price for a new battery with upgraded design? Tesla seem like a bargain compared to Gruber.
 

SO16

Active Member
Feb 25, 2016
2,964
9,156
MI
Pay for what? That he cut away the 'dead flesh'?

I know it seems attractive, but you have to trust that they seal the battery correctly and that it does not happen any of the other cells, and that it's not the BMS etc etc etc.

They are not doing a refurb of the your battery - to me it seems very expensive for what he is actually doing. It's all man hours. I don't know what the going rate for a skilled man hour at a dealership is in the US, but here in Denmark you would get about 25-30 hours. With Scan My Tesla or similar products you would more or less be able to pinpoint the module in 30 seconds, then take the pack out, open it, find the cell within the identified module and then put the battery back together.

And people are complaining about the price for a new battery with upgraded design? Tesla seem like a bargain compared to Gruber.
It’s a gamble for sure.
 

No2DinosaurFuel

Active Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,392
732
San Diego, California
I’ll just pay the 5k to Gruber Motors in AZ if/when this occurs in my car.
Though it is cheaper than Tesla's replacement cost, I would probably not go for this route because this doesn't guarantee you anything other than a working pack again. There can be another failure in the future and you might have to go back to them for another $5K. And with aging battery, the chances of more bad cells increases.
 

TwistedGray

Model S VIN: 00070
Mar 12, 2021
229
213
Monterey Bay, CA
Though it is cheaper than Tesla's replacement cost, I would probably not go for this route because this doesn't guarantee you anything other than a working pack again. There can be another failure in the future and you might have to go back to them for another $5K. And with aging battery, the chances of more bad cells increases.

Exactly, and when you do have to replace the whole pack rumor has it (would be great if someone could confirm) that Tesla won't take it in as a core now that it's been modified. Sooooo add $15k on top of the invoice, so there's that to consider.

My assumption as others have noted, too, is that people do the Gruber fix in order to pawn the car off on someone else. It's not a long-term solution.
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,383
3,356
Phoenix, AZ
RIDICULOUS profit for Tesla on that andr eason enough to stay away from Tesla products. Replacing a battery out of warranty after a few years will basically make your car worth less than zero. I've never had that happen to any ICE car I've owned. This is a serious issue which Tesla needs to address. I can't wait for all the M3/Y owners to start complaining when they find out a new battery in 5-7 years is going to cost them more than the resale value of their vehicle.
 

David_Cary

Active Member
Dec 17, 2012
1,214
715
Cary, NC
What "us" are you talking about?
The challenge of finding someone to help us is geography. So much easier in SoCA. Those of us on the east coast will have a harder time.
Someone should put a doomsday counter up that lists the number of people out of battery warranty.
There are about 3,000 2012's and about 22,000 2013's.
So right now somewhere around 9,000 out of battery warranty Model S's (not counting salvage warranty denials). But we will be up to 25,000 by the end of this year and then pretty fast growth.
So in my state, there are probably like 500 and maybe 5 have failed. Not much of an aftermarket.
Anyone know how many Gruber has done?
 
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Reactions: Droschke
Dec 27, 2015
113
444
Cheyenne, WY
So Supercharging at more than 150 kW might be possible. We could find out for certain next weekend, assuming @Jason Bloomberg's battery is preconditioned and at the optimal SoC.

Our first V3 Supercharge with the NEW 90 kWh battery in our 2012 Signature Edition P85 Tesla Model S


We went to the Thornton Supercharger which is V3 and and should deliver upto 250 kW. Driving from Cheyenne, Wyoming in 70°+ weather, and destination programmed in to pre-condition we were hoping for faster charging than what we get in Cheyenne, which is V2 (150 kW maximum).


We arrived with 20 percent SOC (State Of Charge) and were underwhelmed by the result, 115 kW. We charged for 12 minutes and were at 52 percent SOC, which actually is much better than our original battery. We'll see if Tesla can do anything to improve this, but even if they can't, it maintained greater than 100 kW during the entire charging session. Our old battery would have had a maximum rate of 88kW and during most of the charging session would be 30 - 45 kW.


The only source of our disappointment was the expectation created by what the representatives from Tesla stated about the upgrade battery performance. They need to either be more realistic or figure why our battery is not operating in the manner they said it would (V3). Had they told us that it would perform like this (V2), we still would have picked the upgrade instead of a remanufactured replacement, but would not have any sense of disappointment about it. I hope sharing this information helps others who are considering options if their Tesla High Voltage battery is out of warranty and needs replacement.


 
Dec 27, 2015
113
444
Cheyenne, WY
Ah. I was going to say you were told wrong, but that does seem like just miscommunication. Like: "Can this charge at a V3 station?" "Yes, it is compatible with that."

The battery pack was not the only limiting factor. When Tesla built the 3 and then Y, they used thicker cables to carry the current in the car to enable the faster charging speeds. The S and X have thinner cables and can't support that.
I've contacted the Service Center about the charging issue to see what they will say. I've also posted about my charging experience with the new battery at a V3 Supercharger which according to what is reported on Plugshare shows others have recently charged at rates upto 290 kW, while ours maxed out at 115kW. Your answer makes sense, but I want to see what Tesla says in response to my query.

I included my You Tube about our V3 Supercharging experience in my communication with Tesla. It's the weekend so I don't expect a response for a few days.

Here's a link to it and the description from the video:

Our first V3 Supercharge with the NEW 90 kWh battery in our 2012 Signature Edition P85 Tesla Model S


We went to the Thornton Supercharger which is V3 and and should deliver upto 250 kW. Driving from Cheyenne, Wyoming in 70°+ weather, and destination programmed in to pre-condition we were hoping for faster charging than what we get in Cheyenne, which is V2 (150 kW maximum).


We arrived with 20 percent SOC (State Of Charge) and were underwhelmed by the result, 115 kW. We charged for 12 minutes and were at 52 percent SOC, which actually is much better than our original battery. We'll see if Tesla can do anything to improve this, but even if they can't, it maintained greater than 100 kW during the entire charging session. Our old battery would have had a maximum rate of 88kW and during most of the charging session would be 30 - 45 kW.


The only source of our disappointment was the expectation created by what the representatives from Tesla stated about the upgrade battery performance. They need to either be more realistic or figure why our battery is not operating in the manner they said it would (V3). Had they told us that it would perform like this (V2), we still would have picked the upgrade instead of a remanufactured replacement, but would not have any sense of disappointment about it. I hope sharing this information helps others who are considering options if their Tesla High Voltage battery is out of warranty and needs replacement.


 
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Reactions: jpvdheijn

roblab

Active Member
Jul 15, 2008
3,435
2,494
Angwin (Napa Valley) CA
So much for Elon's promise 6 years ago that replacement battery costs would be a fraction of the $22K price tag quoted back then. Appears to be exactly the same cost.

This is why I won't keep my P85D past 8 years and why I can't buy a new one. When I drive 50K miles a years, the new battery warranty would expire in 3 years. I keep my cars for 8 to 10 years. I'd consider a new Tesla if I could buy an extended warranty on the battery for 8 years 300K miles.

Now all that said, I've driven little during Covid. If it stays that way, then I wouldn't be able to justify the cost of a premium EV in the first place.
What fraction of the $22K price did Elon quote? As I see it, 99.99/100ths of a price is a fraction. Unless he gave us an actual price of a new battery, well, giving people new batteries for half the price won't happen just to keep a car on the road. I agree with you that it's expensive, but as I understood it, the battery is the major cost of a Tesla. And if you can't get 500,000 miles on a Tesla, you'd be better off buying a Honda. Or do Hondas not have a 500,000 mile warranty?
 

krishna3812

Member
Jan 7, 2021
25
13
Newyork
What fraction of the $22K price did Elon quote? As I see it, 99.99/100ths of a price is a fraction. Unless he gave us an actual price of a new battery, well, giving people new batteries for half the price won't happen just to keep a car on the road. I agree with you that it's expensive, but as I understood it, the battery is the major cost of a Tesla. And if you can't get 500,000 miles on a Tesla, you'd be better off buying a Honda. Or do Hondas not have a 500,000 mile warranty?
I guess problem is not 22k for new battery(since that seems to be retail cost from tesla even though cost /kwh came around 100$) but 15k for core if not returned to tesla. Customer has already paid for that and tesla should not be worried about core if they want to charge FULL retail price on new battery.
 

aerodyne

Active Member
Nov 19, 2018
2,502
2,182
Los Angeles
What fraction of the $22K price did Elon quote? As I see it, 99.99/100ths of a price is a fraction. Unless he gave us an actual price of a new battery, well, giving people new batteries for half the price won't happen just to keep a car on the road. I agree with you that it's expensive, but as I understood it, the battery is the major cost of a Tesla. And if you can't get 500,000 miles on a Tesla, you'd be better off buying a Honda. Or do Hondas not have a 500,000 mile warranty?
My 95 honda only has 465k. All original accessories and drive train. Redlined every time I drive, engine never opened or repaired.

Not sure if it will make it to 500k. Not sure I'll make it that long either, as I am retired now and only put on 3k miles a year now.

I'd be thrilled if my MS lasted 15 years and 200k, but not sure if it will.
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
7,739
6,273
Austin, TX
I guess problem is not 22k for new battery(since that seems to be retail cost from tesla even though cost /kwh came around 100$) but 15k for core if not returned to tesla. Customer has already paid for that and tesla should not be worried about core if they want to charge FULL retail price on new battery.

retail cost for a battery is whatever Tesla would like it to be.
 

aerodyne

Active Member
Nov 19, 2018
2,502
2,182
Los Angeles
I guess problem is not 22k for new battery(since that seems to be retail cost from tesla even though cost /kwh came around 100$) but 15k for core if not returned to tesla. Customer has already paid for that and tesla should not be worried about core if they want to charge FULL retail price on new battery.
My Stealership for the back up ICE has no problem charging full retail for a battery, and a core charge for the old one, that I also bought from them and failed just out of warranty....
 

No2DinosaurFuel

Active Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,392
732
San Diego, California
Our first V3 Supercharge with the NEW 90 kWh battery in our 2012 Signature Edition P85 Tesla Model S


We went to the Thornton Supercharger which is V3 and and should deliver upto 250 kW. Driving from Cheyenne, Wyoming in 70°+ weather, and destination programmed in to pre-condition we were hoping for faster charging than what we get in Cheyenne, which is V2 (150 kW maximum).


We arrived with 20 percent SOC (State Of Charge) and were underwhelmed by the result, 115 kW. We charged for 12 minutes and were at 52 percent SOC, which actually is much better than our original battery. We'll see if Tesla can do anything to improve this, but even if they can't, it maintained greater than 100 kW during the entire charging session. Our old battery would have had a maximum rate of 88kW and during most of the charging session would be 30 - 45 kW.


The only source of our disappointment was the expectation created by what the representatives from Tesla stated about the upgrade battery performance. They need to either be more realistic or figure why our battery is not operating in the manner they said it would (V3). Had they told us that it would perform like this (V2), we still would have picked the upgrade instead of a remanufactured replacement, but would not have any sense of disappointment about it. I hope sharing this information helps others who are considering options if their Tesla High Voltage battery is out of warranty and needs replacement.


You won't be able to charge anymore than 115kw or so. Or the same speed as the 75kwh pack. The reason is the wiring size in your car. I don't have the exact date, but I think all model s prior to raven will always max out at 115kw or so for the 14 modules or 145kw or so for the 16 modules pack. Since your 90kwh pack is really a 14 modules pack, you will max out at 115kw. Wk057 has a great write up in the older model s limitations.
 
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MorrisonHiker

S 100D 2021.4.18
Mar 8, 2015
9,650
8,890
Colorado
You won't be able to charge anymore than 115kw or so. Or the same speed as the 75kwh pack. The reason is the wiring size in your car. I don't have the exact date, but I think all model s prior to raven will always max out at 115kw or so for the 14 modules or 145kw or so for the 16 modules pack. Since your 90kwh pack is really a 14 modules pack, you will max out at 115kw. Wk057 has a great write up in the older model s limitations.
We've charged our 2017 Model S 100D (built two years before Raven vehicles came out) at 187 kW at a v3 Supercharger.
IMG_20200614_085447_041.jpg
 

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