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Service says $22k for new battery on 2012 Model S

ce2078

Member
Dec 20, 2015
112
165
Surprise, AZ
I am not trying to discredit Jason in any way, I'm sure what he has said is based on his experience. My experience with the Tesla packs I have worked on says the car can work just fine after a repair - as long as the software version can accept a pack with different AH modules. While a few dozen packs might not sound like much, I have rebuilt thousands upon thousands of hybrid vehicle packs since 2008 at my company, so I've got quite a bit of experience dealing with HV batteries and how BMS operate. Don't forget I have two S85's I fixed back in 2016 still on the road today.

The BMS in a Tesla is more than capable of maintaining a pack with imbalanced capacity - as long as its programmed right. The current batch of failures is not a hardware limitation but a software imposed fault. I drove 130k miles on a pack with a cut cell fuse - no issues. If we figure the other packs I have fixed have averaged 10k miles so far (likely a low estimate), that's about 500k miles of problem free driving after being repaired. I don't count the software update caused failures, because as soon as the car was downgraded it was back in service. Of course most of the cars I've worked on until recently have been salvage, so software updates were not a big deal as most were rooted beforehand and were not getting updates.

Now before I get blasted for downgrading the software remember that Ingineer would keep salvage cars on older software much of the time, and he is one of the few who could actively upgraded salvage cars via his network. Most of the rooted cars I see around my area have been rooted and left on whatever version they were on. Even Tesla has been known to stop updates for salvage cars. Thus it seems like older software is fine even according to Tesla. You know they definitely wouldn't want news headlines from a salvage car they stopped updating.

With Tesla's refurbished packs, maybe a few get new cells, but definitely not all. Seems many of those packs have less than new range when installed.
 

BCTS

Member
Feb 8, 2021
130
63
Melbourne
I am not trying to discredit Jason in any way, I'm sure what he has said is based on his experience. My experience with the Tesla packs I have worked on says the car can work just fine after a repair - as long as the software version can accept a pack with different AH modules. While a few dozen packs might not sound like much, I have rebuilt thousands upon thousands of hybrid vehicle packs since 2008 at my company, so I've got quite a bit of experience dealing with HV batteries and how BMS operate. Don't forget I have two S85's I fixed back in 2016 still on the road today.

The BMS in a Tesla is more than capable of maintaining a pack with imbalanced capacity - as long as its programmed right. The current batch of failures is not a hardware limitation but a software imposed fault. I drove 130k miles on a pack with a cut cell fuse - no issues. If we figure the other packs I have fixed have averaged 10k miles so far (likely a low estimate), that's about 500k miles of problem free driving after being repaired. I don't count the software update caused failures, because as soon as the car was downgraded it was back in service. Of course most of the cars I've worked on until recently have been salvage, so software updates were not a big deal as most were rooted beforehand and were not getting updates.

Now before I get blasted for downgrading the software remember that Ingineer would keep salvage cars on older software much of the time, and he is one of the few who could actively upgraded salvage cars via his network. Most of the rooted cars I see around my area have been rooted and left on whatever version they were on. Even Tesla has been known to stop updates for salvage cars. Thus it seems like older software is fine even according to Tesla. You know they definitely wouldn't want news headlines from a salvage car they stopped updating.

With Tesla's refurbished packs, maybe a few get new cells, but definitely not all. Seems many of those packs have less than new range when installed.
Perhaps the truth is somewhere a mixture between the both of you... Perhaps the truth is that the BMS has been modified at some stage in last 12-24 months to make the Voltage of Cells more sensitive to changes.

Thus your both right in a way... Jason may be working with newer more up to date Firmware revision vehicles (as expected from normal tech savvy customers) and your dealing with Salvage Vehicles aiming to be kept alive!!!

I wouldn't be surprised that this sort of updated would correspond to the same time as Battery Gate etc....
 

cpa

Active Member
May 17, 2014
3,152
4,090
Central Valley
And maybe the chronic delays in the class action suit against Tesla has a lot to do with how Tesla proposes to mitigate its bifurcated software/hardware matching protocols with how the plaintiffs recognize whether the offer is reasonable and equitable.
 

SmartElectric

Active Member
Jul 9, 2014
2,515
2,165
Toronto,Canada
This essentially means that a "defective pack" is unlikely to be recyclable into another Tesla at all.
Only recycling options are either
- Home Made Powerwall
- Home Made EV Battery
- Home Made etc etc projects.

Also leads me to wonder/suggest that there is probably little or no difference between a Tesla "New" and Tesla "Refurbished" Battery pack.

EV West in US and other companies doing what you list as "home made" in a professional way. It's not just "home", there is a thriving market for the battery modules from Model S/X. I could "part out" my 2013 S 85 for more than it can be sold as a used car. My battery is 95% original capacity, motor is the refurb completely silent one, and these fetch a premium price.

Interestingly, my trade in offer is less than the $22K USD Tesla battery swap out price, and I would never take that $ anyway, love the car too much.
 
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gmo43

Member
Jun 24, 2014
341
563
Mesa
I am not trying to discredit Jason in any way, I'm sure what he has said is based on his experience. My experience with the Tesla packs I have worked on says the car can work just fine after a repair - as long as the software version can accept a pack with different AH modules. While a few dozen packs might not sound like much, I have rebuilt thousands upon thousands of hybrid vehicle packs since 2008 at my company, so I've got quite a bit of experience dealing with HV batteries and how BMS operate. Don't forget I have two S85's I fixed back in 2016 still on the road today.

The BMS in a Tesla is more than capable of maintaining a pack with imbalanced capacity - as long as its programmed right. The current batch of failures is not a hardware limitation but a software imposed fault. I drove 130k miles on a pack with a cut cell fuse - no issues. If we figure the other packs I have fixed have averaged 10k miles so far (likely a low estimate), that's about 500k miles of problem free driving after being repaired. I don't count the software update caused failures, because as soon as the car was downgraded it was back in service. Of course most of the cars I've worked on until recently have been salvage, so software updates were not a big deal as most were rooted beforehand and were not getting updates.

Now before I get blasted for downgrading the software remember that Ingineer would keep salvage cars on older software much of the time, and he is one of the few who could actively upgraded salvage cars via his network. Most of the rooted cars I see around my area have been rooted and left on whatever version they were on. Even Tesla has been known to stop updates for salvage cars. Thus it seems like older software is fine even according to Tesla. You know they definitely wouldn't want news headlines from a salvage car they stopped updating.

With Tesla's refurbished packs, maybe a few get new cells, but definitely not all. Seems many of those packs have less than new range when installed.
No worries Jason has discredit himself already. Like a few years ago aka never joined the good guys against tesla. But been following you. I like what you know. Keep up the good work.
 

Top12

New Member
Jun 20, 2021
2
7
Sweden
I got my Model S VIN 1751 off the line back in 2012 and have had it ever since. On Feb 14th during the day, I pulled it out of the garage with 114 miles showing on the battery. I woke up in the morning with some battery low errors. When I got into the car, it told me that the car wouldn't drive because it needed service, the 12V battery was low voltage and the HV battery was at 0 miles. After calling Tesla Roadside Assistance, they connected to the car and said that it had to be towed to a service center. I was able to get it towed to the closes Tesla service center and now they the tell me my warranty for the drivetrain expired on 1/9/21 (one month earlier) and the HV battery has to be replace for $22k. If my battery was 8 years old, I would be ok with that. I assumed a level of risk having a car for this long and I expected that the battery would go bad at some point. It's just a shame that it died a month after the warranty expired. The kicker for me is that I had a faulty backflow prevention valve in my HV battery 1.5 years ago and had the battery replaced under warranty. Now service is telling me that if I buy a new battery for $22k I get a 4 year/50k mile warranty on the new battery, but the battery they replaced 1.5 years ago only had a one year warranty for parts. I feel I had to somewhat document this to people as I am one of the first roughly 2k-2.5k cars that are out of warranty at this point and I seem to be one of the first to at least document out of warranty replacement options on this site (at least as my search abilities go). So be careful when that warranty expires. You are on your own. Tesla isn't budging on helping my 1.5 year old bad battery and now essentially bricked car. From what I can tell, the car is worth somewhere between $18k-25k working. I'm not sure yet if I'm going forward with the battery replacement to sell it or not.
Gruber Motors maybe kan fix it ?
 

Top12

New Member
Jun 20, 2021
2
7
Sweden
So much for Elon's promise 6 years ago that replacement battery costs would be a fraction of the $22K price tag quoted back then. Appears to be exactly the same cost.

This is why I won't keep my P85D past 8 years and why I can't buy a new one. When I drive 50K miles a years, the new battery warranty would expire in 3 years. I keep my cars for 8 to 10 years. I'd consider a new Tesla if I could buy an extended warranty on the battery for 8 years 300K miles.

Now all that said, I've driven little during Covid. If it stays that way, then I wouldn't be able to justify the cost of a premium EV in the first place.
I have a Model S 2015 year with 300.000 km on the battery still only lost 1% of range in 6 years !
 

Sairaph

Member
May 14, 2020
10
15
Tempe, AZ
Are they "giving you a trade in deal" solely due to this situation?
Maybe up there. I'm in Phoenix and put in a trade-in Request for my #925 Signature. They offered $18K for it Dec 2020 (94,289 miles). However, I know a guy in town that would list it as-is for $32.5K as of 2 months ago. I won't necessarily take him up on it as I want to keep the car but you can initiate the trade-in request here:

 

hpartsch

Member
Aug 6, 2014
624
434
wa
I took my car in for some service this week. I requested the price of the battery replacement since my car is out of warranty. The guy at the front desk said the prices have been going down and he didn't see many failures. He was then shocked when he looked - 20k+ - as the 20k did not include labor/taxes.
 

TwistedGray

Ludicrous > Ludacris
Mar 12, 2021
275
245
Monterey Bay, CA
I took my car in for some service this week. I requested the price of the battery replacement since my car is out of warranty. The guy at the front desk said the prices have been going down and he didn't see many failures. He was then shocked when he looked - 20k+ - as the 20k did not include labor/taxes.
Labor is negligible
 
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cduzz

Member
Jun 6, 2019
419
519
boston ma
I took my car in for some service this week. I requested the price of the battery replacement since my car is out of warranty. The guy at the front desk said the prices have been going down and he didn't see many failures. He was then shocked when he looked - 20k+ - as the 20k did not include labor/taxes.

I was in the service center paying too much for getting a leaky tire patched and a fellow was complaining vociferously about his very early S getting the battery replaced for big bucks. He said that the battery had been replaced under warranty and the replacement got some leak that ruined it shortly after the 8 year warranty expired, and strongly recommended to all in the waiting room to have their battery inspected prior to the warranty expiring.

So -- the batteries clearly fail, and do so at some non-zero rate. I'm not surprised people talk about it in a forum, I was a little surprised to see it in real life on a random afternoon.

How often do they fail? They'll probably all fail by the time they're 20 years old, but what of the 9 year old batteries?

I guess we'll see?
 

Greg29

Member
Apr 26, 2019
95
46
Orlando, FL
I was in the service center paying too much for getting a leaky tire patched and a fellow was complaining vociferously about his very early S getting the battery replaced for big bucks. He said that the battery had been replaced under warranty and the replacement got some leak that ruined it shortly after the 8 year warranty expired, and strongly recommended to all in the waiting room to have their battery inspected prior to the warranty expiring.

So -- the batteries clearly fail, and do so at some non-zero rate. I'm not surprised people talk about it in a forum, I was a little surprised to see it in real life on a random afternoon.

How often do they fail? They'll probably all fail by the time they're 20 years old, but what of the 9 year old batteries?

I guess we'll see?
What does an inspection entail? I would not be sure what to ask for?
 
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