Should the Gen 3 to be a smaller version of the Model S but otherwise identical?

[ElSupreme]

I don't understand the categories. How could it be possible to get more mainstream than the current Model S styling?

I expect the GenIII to look like a scaled down Model S complete with a cramped interior. I would prefer it to be something other than a three-box design so that interior room isn't sacrificed to the gods of boring.

I am with you about Gen III getting away from the 3 box look. The main issues I see are crumple zones, and aerodynamics. The front compartment allows for both of those, and the trailing trunk/hatch is pretty useful/areo at the same time.

I am hoping for something with a short nose, and a hybrid between a wagon, and hatch back (that tapers down). The only issue is rear visibility with the roof obscuring vision.

 

[dhanson865]

I am with you about Gen III getting away from the 3 box look. The main issues I see are crumple zones, and aerodynamics. The front compartment allows for both of those, and the trailing trunk/hatch is pretty useful/areo at the same time.

I am hoping for something with a short nose, and a hybrid between a wagon, and hatch back (that tapers down). The only issue is rear visibility with the roof obscuring vision.

So Prius meets Model S? Closer to the Model S than the Prius or right in the middle?

 

[scaesare]

So Prius meets Model S? Closer to the Model S than the Prius or right in the middle?

Oof. Please no.

 

[ElSupreme]

So Prius meets Model S? Closer to the Model S than the Prius or right in the middle?

I never really thought about it but yes the general Prius shape. I just hope it looks more like say a CR-Z than a Prius.

But no really chopped off rear end, more like the BMW 5series Gran Turismo or the current Model S. I suspect the Gen III will be 6-8" thinner than the Model S, and probably 4-6" taller. Length only reduced about 12-18" mostly out of the front.

 

[aronth5]

So Prius meets Model S? Closer to the Model S than the Prius or right in the middle?

While I am not a fan of this approach this looks similar to what you're describing.
Nissan Invitation Concept Hatchback

 

[yobigd20]

Gen III isn't going to have the same features as a Model S. Elon said it'll be similar, but smaller and with less features to keep the Model S on the "luxury" side. That being said, I wouldn't expect to see any 17" touchscreen, 21" wheels, $2500 sound system, $1000 lighting, no air suspension, half the tech package options, etc, etc, etc... Think "very basic", but with batteries.

 

[aronth5]

Gen III isn't going to have the same features as a Model S. Elon said it'll be similar, but smaller and with less features to keep the Model S on the "luxury" side. That being said, I wouldn't expect to see any 17" touchscreen, 21" wheels, $2500 sound system, $1000 lighting, no air suspension, half the tech package options, etc, etc, etc... Think "very basic", but with batteries.

Basic at the low end yes, but with options Gen3 will cost upwards of $60k.

 

[ecarfan]

Basic at the low end yes, but with options Gen3 will cost upwards of $60k.

Agreed. I suspect that Tesla will try to create a "base" Gen III model that can sell for under $40K but it will be relatively spartan. However surely Tesla will offer a multitude of options (including a P+ configuration) to allow buyers to configure the car to near Model S levels.

 

[MarkR]

Tesla should NEVER make a boring car! For my tastes, it should be sporty, aggressive styling, capable of seating 4-5 in comfort, and have all the tech that an owner is willing to pay for. I LOVE my MS, but I don't really want or need all of the space. I'd rather save the weight and have a more efficient car. Perhaps the Model E should be about the size of a Prius, but it shouldn't look like a cross between a science project and a Cub Scout Pinewood Derby!

 

[mrdoubleb]

Gen III isn't going to have the same features as a Model S. Elon said it'll be similar, but smaller and with less features to keep the Model S on the "luxury" side. That being said, I wouldn't expect to see any 17" touchscreen, 21" wheels, $2500 sound system, $1000 lighting, no air suspension, half the tech package options, etc, etc, etc... Think "very basic", but with batteries.

I don't think they will lose the touch screen. It became part of their brand, part of the wow factor. Also, it gives them the flexibility of adding new features via an update. But maybe most importantly, with lcd screens being as mainstreem as they are, with zillions in production for computers, TVs, etc., I can't imagine it being more expensive than all the buttons, dials, mechanics they would need for a conventional setup. But even if it is, we are talking about a 35k car, so you would not "see" the difference, they can make it disappear in that price. And even if they don't, I think people wouldn't mind buying a $35,500 Model E that has the cockpit of the S over a $35,000 one that looks like it's from the last century.

Also, all the talk about how this is not going to be a luxury car... guys, remember, this will be Tesla's 3 series, not their Ford Focus. It will be a 35k car, so people will expect that. If they will ever be able to produce the "next Ford Focus", they would probably want to do it under a new, mainstream brand.

I think all that Elon said wit regards to luxury was that not as many features will be offered at base price.

 

[RobStark]

In the same way Gen II has the Model S sedan and Model X CUV the Gen III will have a sedan (Model E) and a CUV (Model Y ?) so there is no need to make the Model E more CUV like. IF you want a small CUV get the Model Y.

Yes, Tesla is a maker of premium electric vehicles. Base price of $35 is an entry level luxury car.

Maybe the Nikola Model 1 will be a Honda Civic Ford Focus competitor at some point in the future.

 

[Reykjavik]

I don't think sporty is the right direction. to go. The generation three is supposed to be the affordable car for everyday use by everyday people. The look should convey reliability, safety, utility, and familiarity without compromising style. It should be fit, not muscular, comfortable, not luxurious, good looking, but not sexy.

When you step on the accelerator in a roadster, you would be surprised if it didn't take off with some serious acceleration. In the model S, you expect good acceleration, though perhaps not as much as you actually get. The third generation vehicle should create the impression that it fulfill all your needs. The visual appeal and performance should come as subtle surprises. The look of the car shouldn't be striking, but be just distinctive enough that every once in a while you see it and think "goddam that Tesla of mine is great", it should slowly make other cars look like the dinosaurs they burn as you become accustomed to it.

 

[aronth5]

Very interesting interview with Elon when he was in Germany recently. Nothing new but he did indicate Gen3 would be "maybe 20% smaller then the Model S" not 10%. (@11:10) May need to change the poll:smile:. Also glad he stated the car would cost half of the Model S. Much better to avoid quoting a specific dollar amount IMO which can only come back to haunt Tesla when the price quickly exceeds $35k for most buyers.

http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/video/2015574/#/beitrag/video/2015574/Tesla-Chef-Elon-Musk-im-Interview

 

[MarkR]

Concerns: If the Gen III is going to be half the price, it probably needs to be at least 20-25% smaller than the MS, and the $35k price target that was announced long ago is apt to require some inflation adjustment by the time it arrives in 2016-2017. I'd guess that the base price is more apt to be $40-45k.

Make no mistake, I'd like to be wrong about the price, but inflationary pressures combined with battery supply limitations are apt to be seriously challenging.

If it looks like the offspring of a BMW i8 and a Model S, it will be a hit.

 

[RobStark]

There should be no battery constraints by the second or third year of the Gen III

Any inflationary pressures from other components should be more than offset by deflation of battery cost.

If suppliers can't match the price of batteries produced by Tesla's proposed Giga Factory then Tesla will in fact build the Giga Factory.

 

[smorgasbord]

... Gen3 would be "maybe 20% smaller then the Model S" not 10%. [/URL]

Is 20% smaller small enough? Model S is big, really big. It's more 7 series than 5 series, and it's as wide as a full size pickup truck.

How much smaller is a BMW 3-series than a BMW 7-series? I suspect we're talking volume of the car, not specific width and length measurements, but what dimensions does 80% of Model S translate to? Anyone?

 

[Red Sage]

The poll options seem too limited.

Elon Musk said the Generation III cars, now known as Model ≡, would be competitors to the highest selling BMWs in the US -- the 3-Series. He also said the new car series would be "20% smaller" than Model S. If you look at the published curb weight of the Tesla Model S and multiply it by 80%, you get a weight that is right smack dab in the middle of the weight ranges of the BMW 3-Series cars. I believe that if you want to know the final size of the Model ≡, it is a good idea to look at the size of the BMW 3-Series and work from there as a point of reference. So maybe it could be something like this:

	Model ≡	3-Series	Model S
Length	183.0	182.5	196.0
Wheelbase	114.0	110.6	116.5
Height	56.5	56.3	56.5
Width	74.5	71.3	77.3
Track (front)	63.5	60.3	65.4
Track (rear)	64.0	60.3	66.9
Curb Weight	3,700	3,595	4,647

 

[JRP3]

I hope the Model 3 is a bit lower than the S for better aero. A shorter car at the same height would have worse aero.

 

[scaesare]

Is 20% smaller small enough? Model S is big, really big. It's more 7 series than 5 series, and it's as wide as a full size pickup truck.

How much smaller is a BMW 3-series than a BMW 7-series? I suspect we're talking volume of the car, not specific width and length measurements, but what dimensions does 80% of Model S translate to? Anyone?

Well, a sphere with only a 10% reduction in diameter has a 27% reduction in volume. Now a car shape is a complex thing... but it demonstrates that reducing the size in 3 dimensions can reduce volume quickly...

 

[art]

red sage if the model 3 has a 114" wheelbase with comfortable seats that would make one great road car. my camry has 110" and is pretty good. live in mn summer. nv winter alot of hwy miles.