Solicitation for Opinions on Tesla Service and Recent Pricing Changes

[ord3r]

I think anyone should be able to get FSD for the cheapest available price UNTIL it is released, at which point what you paid is set in stone. The key thing with FSD is that people paid more for a pre-order, it's not like they even got the product to use.


The iphone analogy is great. I am not pissed, but understand why many are. Its a pretty strange situation to have a pre-order cost 50% more than the actual purchase price.

 

[Knightshade]

I think anyone should be able to get FSD for the cheapest available price UNTIL it is released, at which point what you paid is set in stone. The key thing with FSD is that people paid more for a pre-order, it's not like they even got the product to use.

Exactly.

And for folks who already spent 5k on EAP, that lowest price for FSD is...$0.00. Since current owners who bought neither can get both for 5k total today.

For those who spent 8k on EAP and FSD, that lowest price is -$3000, same reason.

 

[MrBoylan]

I think anyone should be able to get FSD for the cheapest available price UNTIL it is released, at which point what you paid is set in stone. The key thing with FSD is that people paid more for a pre-order, it's not like they even got the product to use..

Exactly. If you pre-order a Blu-ray Disc on Amazon, and the price goes down any time before or at delivery, you automatically get the lowest price. It's the most logical (and fairest) way to handle a pre-order.

 

[MrBoylan]

At the moment, I'm working on a couple of articles: One about the current state of Tesla Service, and another about the impact of the recent pricing changes on people's opinions of the company.

Hey, just to get back on topic, if you've got a specific opinion on Tesla service, based on your own first-hand recent experience, please post it here or send me a PM. I need details on your name, where you're located and where you had the service.

I have gotten some feedback, but I'd like to include a few more experience-based anecdotes in the story if anyone would like to share. Positive or negative is fine.

Thanks!

-Chris

 

[tomas]

Hey, just to get back on topic, if you've got a specific opinion on Tesla service, based on your own first-hand recent experience, please post it here or send me a PM. I need details on your name, where you're located and where you had the service.

I have gotten some feedback, but I'd like to include a few more experience-based anecdotes in the story if anyone would like to share. Positive or negative is fine.

Thanks!

-Chris

Just today in advance of next week service visit, tech at intergalactic (at request of local service manager) reviewed logs at time/date I noted incident,,did remote diagnostics, determined fix in a specific coming software release, and saved me a service visit. They also gave me Personal phone number and email in case I want to check back. This is typical of the excellent service I’ve had since 2012. Problem in this case was reboot at startup on 3.

My wife had experience last fall with her 3 where they diagnosed a stall remotely and fixed with software push.

For my S, I’ve had proactive calls to fix 12v regulator and swap drive unit. In both cases, Tesla noted need from logs and called me.

PS, I hope you factor for the negative bias on the internet. People often come to carp, seldom to compliment.

 

[Brando]

Just compare Model 3 prices RWD on extra cost / MILEAGE only.
Cost per added mile range is very interesting -- shouldn't you get the biggest battery ??

[no consideration for added interior options - what? just a bonus for interior options?]

Model 3...Range..CASH....extra $/mile added range
Standard....220...$35,000...$ 0.
Standard+..240...$37,000...$100. $2000/20
Mid.............264...$40.000...$125. $3000/24
Long...........325...$43,000...$ 49. $3000/61
--

 

[Fair Verona]

I have only good things to say about Tesla service, from our first test drive, through to delivery and any post-purchase service issues. As a 2018 purchaser I was a little disappointed when the new pricing came out, but this was soon made good by the offer for cheaper AP+FSD (I have since purchased AP for $2k).

I had a wonderful delivery at Costa Mesa and it was a really positive experience, wasn't rushed and everyone was super helpful and friendly.

I have required service at the Burbank Service Center for a few issues (headlights not turning off the day after delivery, issue with one of the interior ambient lights, and a problem with updates pushing) All those times, the service people have been super friendly and helpful. They have explained to me what the issue was and fixed it on the spot (luckily I have never needed more intensive service needing the car to be left for longer periods. I have always received follow up calls and emails to ensure everything was taken care of. While in service, they always gave extra attention to the car pumping the tires if pressure was low, doing a basic check of the systems and refilling the washer fluid, even though I have never asked them to do so.

I know some people have had issues, but I honestly couldn't have asked for a better experience dealing with Tesla service and have been very satisfied with the car and everything to do with Tesla to date. I can't see myself buying a non-Tesla car at this stage for a very long time.

 

[Knightshade]

Just compare Model 3 prices RWD on extra cost / MILEAGE only.
Cost per added mile range is very interesting -- shouldn't you get the biggest battery ??

If you virtually never expect to need it (bear in mind the average american drives less than 30 miles in a day) then no, you shouldn't.

 

[MrMassTransit]

If you virtually never expect to need it (bear in mind the average american drives less than 30 miles in a day) then no, you shouldn't.

I agree. In my situation, I expect to need it from time to time, but not regularly - maybe a handful of times per year at most. For that, we're talking about increasing the cost of the vehicle by $8,000. With the long range + $1k for paint + $3k for auto pilot, I'm not far away from $50k with the delivery charges included.

At the end of the day, that's $100 more every month to be in a situation where on a road trip I might have to make two supercharger stops rather than one, so maybe a savings of 30-40 minutes. If you're taking 500 or 600 miles drives several times per year, then yes, you shouldn't consider anything else. For me, I'd probably only cover more than 350 miles per day once or twice in a decade. For those kind of distances I fly, or in a few cases take the train.

Now, I'll take the car on plenty of road trips, that's a big reason why I decided to sell my Leaf. But I just don't do that kind of long, full day driving, so 240 miles of range works for me. Battery degradation on Teslas is so low that even in 10 years, to have 90% of that would not be a problem (and the SC network will be massive by then).

I will say that it depends how you drive, not just how far you drive, though. If you're planning on traveling 75-85 MPH for the bulk of your trips, heavily using climate control (particularly in the winter), or you're not interested in worrying about the efficiency of your travel, then the bigger battery probably represents the best value.

 

[neroden]

Hey, folks,

I'm a long time member and occasional contributor to the forums, I also write for CleanTechnica about Tesla and other clean power issues. Here's a link to some of my work on CleanTechnica:

Chris Boylan, Author at CleanTechnica

At the moment, I'm working on a couple of articles: One about the current state of Tesla Service, and another about the impact of the recent pricing changes on people's opinions of the company.

So if you've got an experience with Tesla service - negative or positive - please post it here. As far as "Service" is concerned, this would involve any direct personal experience with Tesla service, mobile service, on-site service and/or parts availability and its impact on service turn-around. If you've been a customer for a year or more and have noticed any change, this is worth noting.

I've owned a Tesla since 2013.

Chris, here are my main issues:

(1) The nearest service center is 5 hours drive away. I have unlimited ranger service (which was only purchaseable for a few months) so Tesla is taking care of it for now at their very large expense, but what the hell do I do when the extended warranty runs out and the car needs a lift? It will not be affordable to own the car unless they get a service center in Syracuse or Rochester or Binghamton NY. (All the service techs agree, but they can't seem to get HQ to do anything.)

(2) Service communications, until very recently, have been appalling. It's been hours on the phone having to repeat everything every time I talk to a new person, and then the person who actually comes to repair the car often hasn't heard any of it. The actual repair people are great.

The comms were better at my two most recent service calls (during 2019) -- they actually had the record of what I told the previous person, and I even got handed off to the correct specialist. But on one of them they still emailed when I specifically told them to call (thus meaning I had to call and yell at them to CALL back like I told them to).

(3) If something is broken in software (like the media player), you are screwed. They just break stuff in new software releases. They never ever fix software bugs. They just break stuff. The service centers have no ability to get the software people to fix anything. Neither do the mobile rangers. Neither does "executive escalation". Only suing the company or, if you get lucky, tweeting at Elon can get them to fix a software bug.

The good parts:
(1) The actual bottom-line service staff are awesome, eager beavers who do great work. Once you actually have one of them working on your car and talking to you, you're golden, in my experience. (Unless there's a software problem. Then you're hosed.)
(2) The hardware people do really great work. Every time I've had a hardware problem, it has been fixed permanently with an upgraded, improved hardware component. The exact opposite of the appalling experience with software, where every single version is worse than the previous one (and I really wish I still had the version which came with the car in early 2013).
(3) Parts availability has been good in my experience. But it's improved this year. It used to be that they would be calling around trying to figure out where they could get the part -- there was no central database, I guess, so they were calling other service centers saying "Have you got one of these?" Now they can find even obscure parts very quickly and get them immediately.

Nathanael Nerode, Ithaca, NY, and I'd be happy to answer follow-up questions.

 

[UngaBunga1989]

Everything that I have to say on this topic I said here...

12/18 M3P Got More Than I Paid For

 

[Dana1]

I got 5 referrals and had been a pretty big Tesla supporter and all but bit peeved by the recent changes and my service experiences. I own a Model 3 and X and love them but have had significant service issues with both cars, particularly my 3 had multiple drive unit failures. Communication sucked and I gave them the benefit of the doubt for being new to mass producing cars. But the sleezy sales tactics is what really upset me after these multiple drops. Got my dad to consider a Tesla as they loved our 3. Tesla reps were pushy and kept getting emails direct from Tesla to buy now or miss out on tax credit and pay more. He had no need for a car for 6 months more when his i3 lease was up at that time but was convinced to buy now or pay $7500 more in the future. Fast forward to these multiple drops and we ended up paying much more for a car that was not needed because of Teslas sales tactics.

After these latest drops and unfair EAP/FSD pricing for various buyers I don't think I am as excited about the company as before. Im sure others feel this way and Tesla may have to start advertising if they are disappointing their previous buyers. I truly now believe demand for the car is just not there, there is simply no other viable alternative explanation to me. They are closing stores, laying off reps, and dropped prices on all the cars across the board. All these changes in 1 announcement is not positive way to introduce a more affordable 35k model. If things were positive they would have kept the same premium pricing model on the higher trim models and simply introduce the $35k model with the smaller range battery and no PUP. Everything else fit perfectly to keep their profit margins healthy (9K LR battery upgrade, 5K PUP) but it seems a larger demand problem and Tesla overreaching too far at the expense of their brand loyalty.

It is distressing that the cost has changed for a feature that has not yet rolled out.

 

[OCR1]

I expect there to be a class action lawsuit regarding the FSD pricing. At some point an enterprising lawyer will make the argument that Tesla breached their agreement by offering to provide FSD at the lowest price Tesla will offer it to anyone if it was paid for at the time the car was purchased. By lowering the price after collecting people’s money and refusing to refund those who paid up front they have breached their agreement to the consumer. It’s only a matter of time.

All of the other complaints regarding the prices of models being lowered are just the way it goes. It’s frustrating, but to be expected with technology products. They either give you a better product for the same price (Apple), or they lower the price of the product as the technology evolves. They kept telling us a $35K Model 3 was coming. Some of us just didin’t really believe it and were proved wrong.

 

[tomas]

I expect there to be a class action lawsuit regarding the FSD pricing. At some point an enterprising lawyer will make the argument that Tesla breached their agreement by offering to provide FSD at the lowest price Tesla will offer it to anyone if it was paid for at the time the car was purchased. By lowering the price after collecting people’s money and refusing to refund those who paid up front they have breached their agreement to the consumer. It’s only a matter of time.

All of the other complaints regarding the prices of models being lowered are just the way it goes. It’s frustrating, but to be expected with technology products. They either give you a better product for the same price (Apple), or they lower the price of the product as the technology evolves. They kept telling us a $35K Model 3 was coming. Some of us just didin’t really believe it and were proved wrong.

I doubt it. Class action lawyers look at size of class and amount of damages. Not enough there.

 

[justaute]

Price going up. Fewer stores will be shuttered. Management...ha.

Update on Tesla Stores and Pricing

 

[mos6507]

It is distressing that the cost has changed for a feature that has not yet rolled out.

Not to mention a feature that is effectively science-fiction. It's basically a crowdfunding campaign ala Star Citizen.

The class-action will come when those who prepaid feel they've waited long enough and FSD has remained vaporware.

 

[tomas]

Not to mention a feature that is effectively science-fiction. It's basically a crowdfunding campaign ala Star Citizen.

The class-action will come when those who prepaid feel they've waited long enough and FSD has remained vaporware.

Well, I suspect Tesla will release FSD features later this year, and that, combined with full disclosure it was “Future” at time of purchase, will make this moot.

 

[mos6507]

I suspect Tesla will release FSD features later this year

No way in hell their flavor of FSD will actually be FSD in any real-world sense of the term.

 

[tomas]

No way in hell their flavor of FSD will actually be FSD in any real-world sense of the term.

You need to step back and take wider view. 6 years ago, Nav systems were all “nanny” and wouldn’t let you enter address unless in park. Now we have lane keeping on most new cars, and I suspect Tesla will make good on stop sign and light recognition, taking step closer to local autonomy. Tesla might not have first system or best, but their initiative has driven this and forced other makers’ hands.

You are right, it will be ages til full autonomy. But it is now inevitable eventually.

Legally, some features will be enough. Emotionally for some buyers, not.

 

[mos6507]

You need to step back and take wider view

If we hadn't seen the autopilot fatalities I'd be more optimistic about Tesla's roadmap, and we perhaps had yet another one recently which replayed the Autopilot 1 fatality despite it being on Autopilot 2.x. Why can't the newest system avoid past fatal errors??? Plus all the recent brain-drain. I just don't think they have what it takes to pull it off and the lack of lidar is a risky gamble on Musk's part. The CPU upgrade is really the only thing I see reinforcing the optimistic narrative, but the software is key as well.

The more autonomy autopilot is given the more likely it will hit edge-cases and crash into things. So this could be the calm before the storm as far as reality-checking the techno-optimism.