I saw a few articles over the past year about how many states are suffering transportation fund deficits due to the rise of high-efficiency / non-gasoline vehicles. States are unable to collect the proportionate amount of funds from them through fuel taxes. The proposal was to levy a flat tax for the ownership of such vehicles.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
SOLUTION - How to pay for the EV tax credit!
- Thread starter insaneoctane
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Model 3
I saw a few articles over the past year about how many states are suffering transportation fund deficits due to the rise of high-efficiency / non-gasoline vehicles. States are unable to collect the proportionate amount of funds from them through fuel taxes. The proposal was to levy a flat tax for the ownership of such vehicles.
Highly relevant. The taxes are not against competitors of Tesla, so that rich Tesla fan boys can buy Teslas. The proposed charges are against polluting vehicles. So for GM, a GMC truck would pay for the Bolt.
No different from how cigarettes are surcharged and the proceeds are used for cancer research.
DrivingRockies
Closed
Same argument. I want someone else to pay for my toy because I disagree with the toy they want.
And thus ushers in the circular argument.
barjohn
Member
According to recent analysis it costs more in terms of CO2 emissions to build an EV than an ICE vehicle so should we place a high carbon tax on EV manufacturers? The production and use of ANY energy source has a cost and it is mostly how the cost is distributed, where the pollution is distributed and who pays for it that differs.
Published by Trump School of Science ?
DrivingRockies
Closed
I can't make you think pollution and GHG are bad if you choose to think it doesn't matter. I've found that there is a range of people on the scale. Some think it's an immediate world problem, some acknowledge pollution is probably undesirable, but not worth spending extra money on - fix it for free at any pace, some think we've been doing this for hundreds of years so it's a left wing conspiracy theory. I personally think pollution is bad and would like to move to sustainable energy and transportation as practical without creating severe economic unbalances. Now, many EVs have been produced with larger carbon footprints than their ICE counterparts. Hopefully they make up for that during operation by consuming electricity vs gasoline. But, there are some "bad hombres" that make the EV manufacturering look bad. Sometimes we need baby steps. Electricity continues to come from greener and greener sources literally every day. Tesla is different. They manufacture vehicles (including the batteries) at a lower footprint than their ICE Counterparts. Most car manufacturers could learn a few things from Tesla about this. Anyway, another significant point is if all cars were powered by electricity, then each percent of the grid that goes green has HUGE ramifications in transportation. It has the potential to ultimately allow fully sustainable operation. This is a rapidly changing topic, so periodically update your data and perspective. Here's a recent article that I find informative :
A Tesla is greener than you think and getting greener - a look at manufacturing
A Tesla is greener than you think and getting greener - a look at manufacturing
Barklikeadog
Active Member
ElecFan
Member
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Add the articles to the pile talking about evidence the Earth is flat and was "created" 5000 years ago.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
This appears to be common sense but I am skeptical. We can though say with confidence that when the grid is 100% clean for the non-transport sectors, additional clean energy used in transport will reduce pollution/GHG there too. Until that point, this is a game of musical chairs.
Then why do I support EV ?
Well, part of it is that I just plain love the technology
2, reduction in oil use has its own societal benefits unrelated to pollution/GHG
3. EV adoption has impressive secondary effects that promote the growth of clean energy. This is hard to quantify but true and substantial
T34ME
Active Member
Well, yes and no. You are correct that to build an EV causes slightly more emissions (primarily because of battery production) than building an ICE car. But no, you are incorrect, because after about 12.000 total miles the EV makes up for that deficit, compared to ICE, and continues to do so for the lifetime of the EV through no tailpipe emissions. In both the short term and long term, the ICE vehicle is a major contributing factor to emissions related health issues and global warming when compared to an EV.
T34ME
Active Member
Those Federal taxes are used, in part, to offset subsidies to the oil industry.
ElecFan
Member
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
The Gigafactory is designed to be carbon neutral.
ElecFan
Member
So it's not whether but HOW you build a battery (and also recycle it f.e. in powerwalls and powerpacks). Show us scientific studies of building Tesla's compared to any ice car and then we can see which one is more sustainable. I bet it's the Tesla.
and if you read the article around it it becomes clear that the graphic is basically only wishful thinking right now and not based on real data....just more promises and "expectations" from a somewhat biased source.
I´ll believe it when that reality actually happens.
Last edited:
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
No
Look at the 2nd and 3rd bar from the left in the graphic.
Now, about the advice to actually read the article. Excellent --- you should take it.
Baseline battery manufacture: mining and cell production in China, assembly in Germany, no recycling, dirty grid.
Compare and contrast to Tesla.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
But getting the raw materials to the gigafactory is FAR from carbon neutral. Mining the raw materials is still done with equipment that has large carbon footprints, and at this time mining for those materials is more carbon-intensive than steel for traditional ICE cars (mostly because you can just melt down existing junkers for new cars - the steel in most cars these days has been in 4-6 cars already in the past).
Similar threads
