Solution to charge your Model 3 if you don't have any garage?

[callmesam]

What are you talking about? You said there aren't any alternatives. Plugshare shows that there are. Period. I don't use PlugShare....I paid for Supercharging. I'm going to use it.

I don't use PlugShare - I use Superchargers. I have data on SuperChargers as far as how fast they charge my car and how much it would cost at my house KWH charge.

Your reading comprehension isn't too good. What I'm talking about are FAST CHARGERS. The reason I mention them is that there are NO OTHER CHARGERS IN CHICAGO THAT ARE FAST.

Is that clear enough?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Your reading comprehension isn't too good. What I'm talking about are FAST CHARGERS. The reason I mention them is that there are NO OTHER CHARGERS IN CHICAGO THAT ARE FAST.

Is that clear enough?

Maybe it isn't....lol. Insults will get you no where with me. LOL. I'm going to keep super charging my car..... that's the bottom line.
Hopefully others that read this thread received some good links and info that I've listed. Use PlugShare, EVtrip, SuperChargers and etc. to decide what best fits your agenda.

 

[callmesam]

If you want to go from empty to full in less than an hour, you only have one choice: Supercharging.

If you don't mind staying in one place for many hours, then you have lots of choices.

 

[Booga]

Maybe it isn't....lol. Insults will get you no where with me. LOL. I'm going to keep super charging my car..... that's the bottom line.
Hopefully others that read this thread received some good links and info that I've listed. Use PlugShare, EVtrip, SuperChargers and etc. to decide what best fits your agenda.

Supercharging is the only thing that's reasonably simple, in my opinion. Except for instances where I'm going off the beaten path (camping in a remote place, etc.), I would prefer if 100% of my charging is either at home or a supercharger. I don't want to bother with anything else. A hotel might be the only exception, because I really don't want to have to pick my hotel based on ability to charge overnight.

 

[eisbock]

I charge at a place where there is only 1 charging station unit. It's a long way from any expressway and I have never seen an out of state plate show up when I was there....however ethically I will gladly give up my spot and come back later.

Is that station at a hotel or something? Do you ever have to wait for somebody else? I'm curious because I would love to find a "hidden" supercharger that's never too busy.

 

[stopcrazypp]

You are forgetting.... I don't care. Call a sales agent for yourself. Obviously Elon M. has not decimated the correct information to them.

They can give me back my $2500 and I won't use their superchargers..... Its very easy.

It's fine if you don't care, but I'm merely illustrating why Tesla might care and why the cost isn't as insignificant as you put it. In case you missed it, Tesla issued a letter on this before:
Supercharging - Elon's statement that Daily Supercharging Users are Receiving Notes
Supercharging letter from Tesla 8-13-2015

And if you are talking about the Model 3 (I presume you are not a S60 owner), we don't know yet what they will do with that yet.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The car battery is DC so it's DC to DC... I can build that hardware for under $20. $50 if I attach a small computer to it.

What magic hardware are you talking about?

Good luck doing that. All the manufacturers charge $700-750 when they have DC charging available separately (although recently the trend is to bundle with other packages or by raising the price of the car). And this is for CHAdeMO/CCS that provides 125A (while Tesla's provides 370A, 3x the current).

The JdeMO DC charging retrofit costs $2999 for the RAV4 EV and Roadster (installation and miscellaneous costs extra). If you can do the same same for $50, I would suggest you take up that project.
Tesla Roadsters Charge At CHAdeMO Thanks To JdeMO - Video - Inside EVs

 

[JeffK]

Good luck doing that. All the manufacturers charge $700-750 when they have DC charging available separately

Of course they do, DC quick chargers are faster than alternatives therefore desirable. Last time I checked most manufacturers charge an arm and a leg for something desirable.

Heck I've seen $2000 GPS packages added to cars. It doesn't mean GPS is $2000.

 

[Booga]

I have no clue what Tesla will do... let me just comment on what I would be okay with. I realize that there might be regulatory issues and such, but put all of that aside for this.

I would be perfectly fine with free supercharging capability, but paying a little bit for the power. I have no issue paying. The real capability I'm after is the ability to charge my car on major highways so that I can enable long distance travel without range anxiety.

Again, regulatory issues aside... I would be happy with paying 12 cents per kwh of charge, or whatever the appropriate rate is. It would be great if it was something simple like $7.50 for 60kwh.

By doing this, I don't have to worry about my usage ever being abusive to their system. Let me charge for in city use if I want, or let me charge for highway usage if that's my desire. I'm hoping that my daily driving will be covered by charging at home and then I'll use a supercharger if I'm on a long trip or if I don't have charging at home for whatever reason.

I'm not 100% sure about where I'll be living and so, right now, I'm only counting on having a 110V line available.

If they charge you for use and not up front, it also enables them to be able to place superchargers in more convenient locations - parking lots at shopping centers, for example. The one feature that I think they would be good about would be a wireless reader built into the plug, which means that as soon as you plug in, it ties it to your account and bills you without the need for a silly CC reader or anything.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Of course they do, DC quick chargers are faster than alternatives therefore desirable. Last time I checked most manufacturers charge an arm and a leg for something desirable.

Heck I've seen $2000 GPS packages added to cars. It doesn't mean GPS is $2000.

But we are discussing what proportion Tesla is assigning to the onboard equipment out of that $2500, and the $700-750 by other manufacturers for 3x less power charging equipment shows the $1400 estimate by Mike is not unreasonable.

Also see the second paragraph. That $3000 DC charging retrofit is not by a manufacturer, but by Quickchargepower (Tony Williams). They charge $1000 total (a $500 premium) for the JESLA AC connector (this is a $500 Tesla Mobile Connector with J1772 connector retrofitted). If the DC charging only costs $50 to implement, I doubt they would charge $3000 for the DC retrofit. DC charging is considerably more complex than you imply.

 

[callmesam]

It's fine if you don't care, but I'm merely illustrating why Tesla might care and why the cost isn't as insignificant as you put it. In case you missed it, Tesla issued a letter on this before:
Supercharging - Elon's statement that Daily Supercharging Users are Receiving Notes
Supercharging letter from Tesla 8-13-2015

What you quoted has nothing to do with cost and everything to do with crowding.

JB Straubel: "We offer this free to our customers. We thought about this for a long time, and the energy cost is very low, it's more about the cost of convenience of having access to the infrastructure. A full charge or even 50% charge in a Model S is less than $10....wasn't worth the hassle of dealing with a whole different billing structure. And in the future, of course, it will make sense to figure out how to phase in some kind of financial transaction here, but it's going to take time. And for the beginning, a million cars, this is a viable way to do it (supercharging)."

Tesla CTO JB Straubel Discusses Electric Cars - Video

As a funny aside, the first post from that thread on the Supercharging letter is someone who doesn't live near a Supercharger and (claims) to never have overstayed a charge. lol.


Let's circle back in 2019, but in the meantime #DriveFree.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Nothing you quoted has ANYTHING to do with cost and everything to do with crowding. Everything from Tesla Motors says the opposite of what you claim is true.

In fact, the first post from that thread on the Supercharging letter is someone who doesn't live near a Supercharger. lol.

JB Straubel: "We offer this free to our customers. We thought about this for a long time, and the energy cost is very low, it's more about the cost of convenience of having access to the infrastructure. A full charge or even 50% charge in a Model S is less than $10....wasn't worth the hassle of dealing with a whole different billing structure. And in the future, of course, it will make sense to figure out how to phase in some kind of financial transaction here, but it's going to take time. And for the beginning, a million cars, this is a viable way to do it (supercharging)."

Tesla CTO JB Straubel Discusses Electric Cars - Video

Let's circle back in 2019, but in the meantime #DriveFree.

Fantastic post!!!!!! This post lines up exactly with Tesla Sales agents statements.

 

[JeffK]

They charge $1000 total (a $500 premium) for the JESLA AC connector

JESLA AC connector has an inverter which converts AC to DC then feeds it into the car via the connector which itself is nearly $100 depending on where they are purchasing it ... the equipment change on the vehicle costs $0 because the vehicle already came with the necessary hardware.

The Tesla supercharger has the inverter built into the charger and the connector on the charger as well.

The under $50 in hardware would be inside the vehicle, it does not include an inverter because your car has a DC battery already. You're bypassing the onboard chargers. You just need to adjust voltage and current appropriately for your battery and adjust with battery temp. from a preexisting DC source (like a supercharger).

You must charge the battery itself with DC, it's unavoidable because you can't send AC directly to the battery. Therefore the cars will always have the necessary equipment internally. (whether they have a connector and can handle varying loads is another story, but it's in their best interest to charge fast).

callmesam sums up the supercharger issue perfectly.

 

[callmesam]

Fantastic post!!!!!! This post lines up exactly with Tesla Sales agents statements.

I think most of the people "warning" you are trying to prevent overcrowding, as if 100% of owners would suddenly Supercharge instead of charging at home. This is a misplaced fear. But fear makes people do strange things.

 

[stopcrazypp]

What you quoted has nothing to do with cost and everything to do with crowding.

The letter I quoted mentions superchargers being for long distance and not for daily charging. This shows Tesla does care about this issue (whether the issue is cost or crowding). As for JB's statement in April last year, that only talks to consideration of a pay per use method, not whether they would discourage daily charging on superchargers. The letters discouraging daily charging came out in August 2015, 4 months after JB's quoted statement.

 

[HanSolo]

What I want to know is why some people really want to resort to supercharging all the time when they can charge at home. Supercharging all the time could not be very good for battery life and these things are still not cheap. Assuming the cheapskate mentality as our framework here, it would be illogical if you are accelerating battery degradation.

 

[callmesam]

The letter I quoted mentions superchargers being for long distance and not for daily charging. This shows Tesla does care about this issue (whether the issue is cost or crowding). As for JB's statement in April last year, that only talks to consideration of a pay per use method, not whether they would discourage daily charging on superchargers. The letters discouraging daily charging came out in August 2015, 4 months after JB's quoted statement.

You act as if the letter is a new restatement of the entire policy of Supercharging, past, present and future.

It can't be.

You stated that cost was a factor. Here's Elon Musk at that same Shareholder's meeting "But it is free long distance forever and it’s basically built into the cost of the car. And based on what we’re seeing in terms of the economics, it looks quite supportable."

The opposite is true.

When we point out that Superchargers are intended for locals without home charging, you circle back to the letter.

Sorry, but that's not the way it works. The letter is not dispositive on all use cases.

Even in the statement and letter, occasional Supercharging by locals with home charging is a "cool" use.

And daily Taxi use.

Might I suggest that you start a thread asking Tesla what the word "occasional" means.

 

[stopcrazypp]

You act as if the letter is a new restatement of the entire policy of Supercharging, past, present and future.

It can't be.

You stated that cost was a factor.

The opposite is true.

When we point out that Superchargers are intended for locals without home charging, you circle back to the letter.

Sorry, but that's not the way it works. The letter is not dispositive on all use cases.

Even in the statement and letter, occasional Supercharging by locals with home charging is an acceptable use.

And daily Taxi use. And for to offset commuting cost. . .

Might I suggest that you start a thread asking Tesla what the word "occasional" means.

I think you might be confusing me with some other poster. To make it clear, I already said Tesla policy explicitly allows locals with no home charging to use superchargers. In fact, I brought it up before you did.

As for the second point, I am not saying occasional use by locals with home charging should be banned. I am saying superchargers are not for regular charging by locals in that situation (as in doing practically all of their local charging on superchargers, when they can charge at home for the same).

I only bring up cost in the context of the conversation with Garlan about assigning value to the network vs the $2500 option price. People like to handwave away the costs by looking at the cost of a single charge, but once you do the math over the lifetime of the car, it shows a completely different picture.

All of these points have been discussed at length in the other threads (which is why I initially didn't want to jump into this conversation). There are other things not touched on, such as Tesla's SEC filings related to this.

 

[stopcrazypp]

JESLA AC connector has an inverter which converts AC to DC then feeds it into the car via the connector which itself is nearly $100 depending on where they are purchasing it ... the equipment change on the vehicle costs $0 because the vehicle already came with the necessary hardware.

The JESLA AC connector does not have an inverter at all. The inverter is already included in the onboard charger in the car. All the JESLA connector is a EVSE that does the J1772 protocol handshake and provide various adapters to sockets. And what Quickchargepower does is simply take a $500 Tesla mobile connector, take off the Tesla side, and add a J1772 connector (which might cost $100-200). My JESLA example is intended to show that company charging essentially $500 ($1000-$500) to do that.

If DC charging only costs $50 to implement, then their DC retrofit option would cost $50+$500 = $550. Yet it costs $3000 (and that doesn't even include installation).

The Tesla supercharger has the inverter built into the charger and the connector on the charger as well.

The under $50 in hardware would be inside the vehicle, it does not include an inverter because your car has a DC battery already. You're bypassing the onboard chargers. You just need to adjust voltage and current appropriately for your battery and adjust with battery temp. from a preexisting DC source (like a supercharger).

You must charge the battery itself with DC, it's unavoidable because you can't send AC directly to the battery. Therefore the cars will always have the necessary equipment internally. (whether they have a connector and can handle varying loads is another story, but it's in their best interest to charge fast).

I'm completely aware of how DC charging works. What it involves in the car is a contactor that can connect and disconnect the battery from power pins on the connector. And given Tesla shares power pins with AC, their contactor needs to switch from the onboard charger to the battery. Then on the car side there needs to be hardware and software that can do the analog/digital handshake through the signal pins. None of this would be any less complex than the AC connector. In fact, it is more complex, since AC only uses the analog handshake (pilot signal), while DC uses both analog (CHAdeMO has pilot throughout, Tesla/CCS has it in the first half and switches to digital) and digital communication (CHAdeMO and Tesla uses CAN bus, CCS uses PLC). Also, the AC connector only needs to handle a max of 80A of current, while DC handles 125A-370A (which means beefier components throughout).

 

[Canuck]

All Superchargers are for locals without home charging.

Agreed. The question is how Tesla can implement this to avoid abuse. I suggest a "pay-per-use" system for the Model 3 that is equal to the costs of home charging, which I know varies, but based on a national average or something like that.

Why spend so much time chasing ghosts, when Tesla is on record for 2 years as supporting local charging (just not by the garaged, who account for 2/3 of the homes in the US)? Let it go. See voter fraud in the US. Just because it can exist does not mean it does exist in any significant measure. Yet much handwringing ensues for political gain with the underlying motive being to reduce lower-income voter participation. In this thread, there seems to be a poorly-thought-through movement to dissuade those of less means from buying EVs. Same church, different pew.

Those of us here opposing locals charging at Superchargers, who have access to home charging, are not engaged in a "poorly-thought-through movement to dissuade those of less means from buying EVs". I find that extremely condescending to those who you claim to be trying to help out. To draw an analogy to voter id laws is ridiculous. Please don't turn this thread into class warfare. I bet there's a lot of very wealth people, in high end condos, who can't charge at home. I also bet that with a mass market car many more people will be charging at Superchargers when they have home charging, just to save a buck. But unlike you, I don't attribute that to income levels. Some of the cheapest people I know are also the wealthiest. That's how many got to be that way. This has nothing to do with income levels. When's something is "free", many people take advantage of it, regardless of how much money they have in the bank.

You are still not hearing me. I PAID $2500 for supercharging. I'm not trying to be insensitive - I'm being honest.

You're not being honest since Tesla made it very clear to you that you paid $2,500 for Supercharging for long distant travel. Admitting to that would be honest but something tells me you will again fail to hear me.

Now, there are posts here about people without home charging, but with a close Supercharger, having told that to their Sales Advisor before purchasing, and Tesla agreed that they were exempt from the rule. If you were exempted, because you truly do not have the option to home charge, then I would agree with your statement and call you honest.

Also, you are neglecting to factor in the hardware/software costs. The way the S60 upgrade was worded was that it paid for the hardware/software. This is similar to how for the Leaf/Spark EV/i3 DC charging cost $700-$750 as an option simply for the hardware/software.

We also need to factor in the Supercharger infrastructure cost. I'd prefer if every Model 3 had an additional $2,500 added on to the price and those funds went to build and service more Superchargers. That would be ideal. But I think the price is already being squeezed too much and I don't see it happening. I think the pay-per-use model makes the most sense when it comes to costs and avoiding abuse.

Only time will tell and my posts will be here for all the naysayers to say: "I told you so" if I am wrong. The only thing certain is uncertainty since no one really knows -- or at least no one posting here knows. I also wonder if the insiders at Tesla have even determined this issue yet.