Speculate - next feature/improvement for AP2 after "silky smooth" and when?

[Bladerskb]

Where? What car can I go, right now, and buy to have said feature?

To be clear, this is what I mean when I say you're applying much different standards to the two systems. To meet your standard, Tesla has to roll out the feature to actual customers, with it fully usable in their cars. MobilEye, apparently, just has to claim it works.

Mobileye | Autonomous Driving & ADAS (Advanced Driver Assistance Systems)

and claim? what? you mean tesla who WAS mobileye's ACTUAL customer were told by mobileye "we think our system works, we have no proof but yeah that's that.. now wheres the truck full of cash?"

lol i'm done with you.

 

[J1mbo]

MobilEye ships traffic light detecion in its production product, the EyeQ3 chip.

There is no reason to believe it is not production functional. MobilEye does not have that type of history.

If it is as good as their speed limit sign detection then I can see why no OEM has been crazy enough to implement it.

I used to own a C-class which used EyeQ3 for "simple" speed limit detection. It was really good at reading speed limit signs from the side the side of the road, overhead gantries, the back of every speed restricted truck and from random side streets.

If the EyeQ3 red light detection is as good as that then I can image big rigs, stores, side streets and halloween would pose a massive risk for anyone relying on it for driver assist.

Edit: answering the OP, I think that the next feature release will be the start of new "enhanced" AP features. Something which builds on existing functionality, like auto-overtake for highways for example.

 

[electracity]

There's traffic light/store sign *recognition*, and then there's *reaction*.

Reaction exists nowhere in a production/real-world environment yet.

Reaction may require a redundant system with a separate code base to implement. The decision a car makes at a light must be much better than human judgement for an automated system to be implemented.

I'm not sure autonomous cars will be sold without manufacturer's getting liability protection in some areas.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Mobileye | Autonomous Driving & ADAS (Advanced Driver Assistance Systems)

and claim? what? you mean tesla who WAS mobileye's ACTUAL customer were told by mobileye "we think our system works, we have no proof but yeah that's that.. now wheres the truck full of cash?"

lol i'm done with you.

Right, looked on that site. I see a lot of stuff talking about what they claim they can do, and a form to request more info. No cars I can purchase or even test out with the feature. So, to be clear, MobilEye's stop light and sign recognition has not been rolled out to any consumer cars and neither has Tesla's.

 

[alehbaba]

i think ap1/2 and maybe 3 will all be planned obsolescence.. like the carrot on the stick and we are all the rabbits...it will never be to the point of feeling safe and trusting in your own can for a long time. Its a gimmic/hype and costly. Sure they have self driving ubers someplaces with radar on top and way more gaget gear then teslas will ever have but they still need to pay a guy to sit there the whole time (i think)...so my point is there will be a fix here..some will work better some wont...then another....then another....and on and on but in the end it wont be what was promised or what you expected.. be real

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I'll be honest.

I expected more of EAP by now.

Not just because I feel Tesla misled in October-December 2016. But because I genuinely thought Tesla had to be better than this, even though logic dictates they are newbies at this that stood on the shoulders of MobilEye previously...

Alas, I am not very hopeful now. The only case for optimism I see is if the rumored second code fork (FSD) is based on something else entirely (nVidia libraries?) and is maturing at a different clip...

I have all but written off the EAP+FSD investment by now as a self-driving thing. Erratic driver aid seems more apt.

 

[brianman]

I have all but written off the EAP+FSD investment by now as a self-driving thing. Erratic driver aid seems more apt.

Did you pay for FSD?

 

[Bladerskb]

If it is as good as their speed limit sign detection then I can see why no OEM has been crazy enough to implement it.

I used to own a C-class which used EyeQ3 for "simple" speed limit detection. It was really good at reading speed limit signs from the side the side of the road, overhead gantries, the back of every speed restricted truck and from random side streets.

If the EyeQ3 red light detection is as good as that then I can image big rigs, stores, side streets and halloween would pose a massive risk for anyone relying on it for driver assist.

Edit: answering the OP, I think that the next feature release will be the start of new "enhanced" AP features. Something which builds on existing functionality, like auto-overtake for highways for example.

Mercedes does not and have never used a eyeq3 or any mobileye product in a consumer production car.
So there goes your answer as to why their sign detection sucked.

Wall Street Loves This Gadget That's Bringing The World Closer To Self-Driving Cars — Here's How It Works

 

[Bladerskb]

Right, looked on that site. I see a lot of stuff talking about what they claim they can do, and a form to request more info. No cars I can purchase or even test out with the feature. So, to be clear, MobilEye's stop light and sign recognition has not been rolled out to any consumer cars and neither has Tesla's.

So what does AP1 use to recognize speed limit signs and adjust acc appropriately... a demon?
please never put mobileye and tesla in the same sentence using "claims" and "roll out" ever again!

 

[MarcusMaximus]

So what does AP1 use to recognize speed limit signs and adjust acc appropriately... a demon?
please never put mobileye and tesla in the same sentence using "claims" and "roll out" ever again!

"Stop" in my sentence applied to both light and sign.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I have all but written off the EAP+FSD investment by now as a self-driving thing. Erratic driver aid seems more apt.

Did you pay for FSD?

Yes.

That said, were I ordering the car again, I doubt I'd leave it out because I do expect FSD to gain features over EAP - and my intent at the time was buying a loaded six-seater. So my comment shouldn't be read as losing faith in that FSD buyers will receive features. Barring a Tesla failure as a company, of course we will. I stil have some hope Tesla might have a second codebase in house for FSD maturing differently...

The thing is, though, if my concerns on FSD back in October were more about the sensor suite (lacking 360 radars and possibly lidar) placing limitations on FSD, I am now actually thinking Tesla's ability to deliver the code might be a bigger issue than I thought. Not that I expect them to never crack it, but my expectations have gone way down on what the EAP+FSD purchase will get me. The constant delays and personnel departures there and the state of the "silky smooth" EAP vs. the reality have left their mark for sure.

No way did I expect EAP to be like this at this stage. Indeed, or even FSD, given Elon's tweet:

@tsrandall
"At what point will "Full Self-Driving Capability" features noticeably depart from "Enhanced Autopilot" features?"

@elonmusk
"3 months maybe, 6 months definitely"

That was January 23rd.

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[Bladerskb]

Yes.

That said, were I ordering the car again, I doubt I'd leave it out because I do expect FSD to gain features over EAP - and my intent at the time was buying a loaded six-seater. So my comment shouldn't be read as losing faith in that FSD buyers will receive features. Barring a Tesla failure as a company, of course we will. I stil have some hope Tesla might have a second codebase in house for FSD maturing differently...

The thing is, though, if my concerns on FSD back in October were more about the sensor suite (lacking 360 radars and possibly lidar) placing limitations on FSD, I am now actually thinking Tesla's ability to deliver the code might be a bigger issue than I thought. Not that I expect them to never crack it, but my expectations have gone way down on what the EAP+FSD purchase will get me. The constant delays and personnel departures there and the state of the "silky smooth" EAP vs. the reality have left their mark for sure.

No way did I expect EAP to be like this at this stage. Indeed, or even FSD, given Elon's tweet:

@tsrandall
"At what point will "Full Self-Driving Capability" features noticeably depart from "Enhanced Autopilot" features?"

@elonmusk
"3 months maybe, 6 months definitely"

That was January 23rd.

Elon Musk on Twitter

Don't get your hopes up about this whole FSD branch. first of all, whatever Tesla comes out with, it will be 3-4 years behind what companies like Audi has been doing and with production quality tech and cars. Only like GM and Volvo, they refuse to use their customers for beta testing. The same sensors and computers in Audi full highway high-speed autonomy car is the same in their new 2018 A8 being revealed in 6 days. Its literally just been software limited.

If we could only get hackers focused on it, they could be able to unlock all its features in record time. Its literally a carbon copy of its L3 test car only software limited by speed and to single lane.

knowing that car security is Swiss chess compared to other consumer tech. it should be a piece of cake.

(2015 video)

Lastly, as i told @Snuffysasa EAP is literally a glorified AP1.
Elon would be better off using the FSD branch and simply software limiting it but they wont.
Making EAP another useless toy.

Automatic lane change for example will be disappointing because it won't be any different than whats happening today. The difference is that its using camera instead of ultrasonics. Infact AP1 car with its sensors could in theory do it.

It won't change lanes in low speed/traffic jams and it won't be doing processing such as... is there obstruction/stopped car/barrier/debris/cones/lane closure upcoming in the lane that i want to turn into?

Basically it wont monitor the environment and will be prone to too many mistakes to be useful.

Audi new L3 A8 coming in 6 days however does all of that.

 

[Snuffysasa]

Don't get your hopes up about this whole FSD branch. first of all, whatever Tesla comes out with, it will be 3-4 years behind what companies like Audi has been doing and with production quality tech and cars. Only like GM and Volvo, they refuse to use their customers for beta testing. The same sensors and computers in Audi full highway high-speed autonomy car is the same in their new 2018 A8 being revealed in 6 days. Its literally just been software limited.

If we could only get hackers focused on it, they could be able to unlock all its features in record time. Its literally a carbon copy of its L3 test car only software limited by speed and to single lane.

knowing that car security is Swiss chess compared to other consumer tech. it should be a piece of cake.

(2015 video)

Lastly, as i told @Snuffysasa EAP is literally a glorified AP1.
Elon would be better off using the FSD branch and simply software limiting it but they wont.
Making EAP another useless toy.

Automatic lane change for example will be disappointing because it won't be any different than whats happening today. The difference is that its using camera instead of ultrasonics. Infact AP1 car with its sensors could in theory do it.

It won't change lanes in low speed/traffic jams and it won't be doing processing such as... is there obstruction/stopped car/barrier/debris/cones/lane closure upcoming in the lane that i want to turn into?

Basically it wont monitor the environment and will be prone to too many mistakes to be useful.

Audi new L3 A8 coming in 6 days however does all of that.

A8 coming in 6 days ?

I thought Audi said A8 will not automatically change lanes.



Also about EAP.. I agree with you its a useless toy. However, you must realize... people like toys.

 

[alcibiades]

Well, I suppose my cold comfort in all this is that I expect to get my ExpectedAP™ money back from the class action. Yippee.

 

[Snuffysasa]

@Bladerskb
@AnxietyRanger

Can someone please explain to me what they mean when they talk about FSB branch.

I mean of course Tesla has several branches and some that are full self driving, like the one they showed in video and will drive across country. But if that code had better vision or smooth control they would have used it already? Rather than independently wasting time on EAP. Also I imagine FSD code relies on map data, which couldn’t be rolled out to the fleet yet, because no map data

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@Bladerskb
@AnxietyRanger

Can someone please explain to me what they mean when they talk about FSB branch.

I mean of course Tesla has several branches and some that are full self driving, like the one they showed in video and will drive across country. But if that code had better vision or smooth control they would have used it already? Rather than independently wasting time on EAP. Also I imagine FSD code relies on map data, which couldn’t be rolled out to the fleet yet, because no map data

There is a rumor - well, more like someone claiming to be in the know - that FSD (the one we saw in the video) is its own codebase and EAP is developed separately from that...

Frustrated with FSD timeline

 

[Bladerskb]

A8 coming in 6 days ?

I thought Audi said A8 will not automatically change lanes.



Also about EAP.. I agree with you its a useless toy. However, you must realize... people like toys.

It will be revealed during spider man homecoming, it will go into full production the same month.
Yeah the 2018 Audi A8 has been software limited to not change lanes.

But heres 30 full mins of L3 driving and before the tesla guys like @stopcrazypp @Tam @buttershrimp @Reciprocity
come out shouting DEMO DEMO DEMO. I have yet to see a demo where engineers allowed random people to sleep for a minute behind the driver seat going 90 mph.

Journalists and guests are actually told NOT to pay attention and NOT to look at the road but to do other stuff.

This is the FIRST REAL L3 car and is as real as it get. that has been fully functional since 2014 and now coming in a limited form (single lane, 37mph) in a few days. this shows you how behind tesla is. But ofcourse tesla would have everyone believe otherwise.


(Watch this 30 minutes driving and tell me you are not impressed!)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The same sensors and computers in Audi full highway high-speed autonomy car is the same in their new 2018 A8 being revealed in 6 days. Its literally just been software limited.

Yes, I know.

A8 coming in 6 days ?

I thought Audi said A8 will not automatically change lanes.

The thing is, though, it will be the first Audi running the Audi self-driving system that has been showing driving on public roads already hundreds of miles during the past several years. The scenario in which it drives will be limited because it will take control and responsibility for the car, so they are conservative about it.

It is not a driver's aid, it will be the first actually self-driving car on the consumer market.

 

[Snuffysasa]

There is a rumor - well, more like someone claiming to be in the know - that FSD (the one we saw in the video) is its own codebase and EAP is developed separately from that...

Frustrated with FSD timeline

I definitely believe there is a different codebase for FSD. Though it seems more likely EAP code and FSD code would eventually merge. EAP focusing on best lane keeping and ACC without maps. FSD more focused on path planning/ following in urban areas, and decision making etc, with a map.

The thing is, though, it will be the first Audi running the Audi self-driving system that has been showing driving on public roads already hundreds of miles during the past several years. The scenario in which it drives will be limited because it will take control and responsibility for the car, so they are conservative about it.

It is not a driver's aid, it will be the first actually self-driving car on the consumer market.

Oh I agree with you, I am excited for the A8 for this reason.
I was just looking for clarification about the lane changing.

 

[Bladerskb]

I definitely believe there is a different codebase for FSD. Though it seems more likely EAP code and FSD code would eventually merge. EAP focusing on best lane keeping and ACC without maps. FSD more focused on path planning/ following in urban areas, and decision making etc, with a map.

I don't think they will merge it. they could theoretically. in theory the current software could be AP2's original parity AP for those who paid for AP1 but got a ap2 car. We forget that there are those who didn't pay for EAP but are using the current software which is currently called "EAP".

So yes in theory they can use only the FSD and divide it between highway and city driving. Where ppl who paid for ap1 but got ap2 cars will use the current legacy eap software (which is ap1 parity) while ppl who paid for eap will use the FSD but its limited to highway only and when its activated outside of mapped divided highway, would fallback to legacy eap software. Then fsd payers would get to use the full fsd code without limits (city and highway).