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Standard Range Plus Autopilot Removed Remotely [by Tesla]

ICE collector

Have a nice day!
Feb 28, 2019
93
25
South Florida
Would you have purchased the Model 3 if it did not have autopilot as the feature, probably not.

If it is listed on the vehicle sale sticker you are supposed to have that feature on the vehicle otherwise it is misrepresentation by both the dealership & manufacturer.

As a former vehicle sales manager I have seen these issues on other vehicles occur often, either the manufacturer, dealership, or both pay for the repair or replacement. So this is both on Tesla & Carvana, if your vehicle is under warranty, by Carvana or Tesla or both they will be required to replace the feature to make it available to you, because you paid for it. So in those terms you have the right to return the car to Carvana, & dispute through arbitration, which I would not hesitate doing. They will fix it because it will cost them more not to.

I had this similar issue with the preowned Model S I purchased through Tesla. After a few contacts both in email, & phone; informing them the reason I bought the vehicle was because it came with this feature, listed as included although this did not escalate to this step, I would have no choice but to return the car, & file a dispute for misrepresented features I already paid for if it isn't resolved through update. I had every right to. So after that trip up the 405 it was installed.
 
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KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,753
3,487
Maine
the front foglights are mounted on the bottom of the car to reduce glare from fog. historically youd sort of use them without headlights.

they have a very different beam pattern to headlights and are dazzeling to other drivers when there is no reduced visibility and there is a reason in most sensible countries you get points and a fine for driving with foglights when not required. its this sort of stuff which just highlights how important it is that the USA introduces a theory exam and lessons for driving.
Fog lights with a light pattern that doesn't stay under the fog, are not going to work very well. The point is, if the fog lights are correctly installed, they shouldn't dazzle anyone, regardless of whether it's foggy or not.

Each state in the US is different, but I remember having to take a driver's education class for 60 hrs and 6 hrs of driving. Is that different than a "theory exam and lessons for driving"?
 

StellarRat

Active Member
Jan 8, 2014
1,524
1,509
Pacific
I think this is a problem between you and Carvana. Generally speaking, I think this whole software driven vehicle problem is going to get worse as more manufacturers are using a lot of reconfigurable software in their vehicles. There is a already a lot of friction between owners of farm equipment and equipment companies such as John Deere not being able to fix or get their equipment fixed at anyone other than the original dealers (at exorbitant prices) due to the manufacturers not allowing anyone to change or use the the equipments' software.


The question is starting to become, do you actually completely own your car? I think the Congress will end up having to pass laws about this at some point.
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,753
3,487
Maine
Several of us suggested that in this thread. The issue there would be, if carvana has any sort of clause in their contract stating that "we make no declarations software features will remain" or something like that. I seem to remember someone posting about that not too long ago. The OPs issue is with carvana, not with tesla, though.

Either Carvana represented the car as a standard range+ and advertised and sold it to the OP as that, in which case the OP might be able to go back to them and state that the car is not as represented (although if that clause is there, OP may be out of luck), OR OP bought this car from carvana as a standard range, but had SR+ features for "some time" then they were removed, in which case they have no recourse at all.
There's a third option: the OP bought this car from Carvana as a SR, but saw that it was originally a SR+ and thought he could force Tesla to return the SR+ features. He thought he was getting a bargain, a SR+ for the price of a SR.

Whichever possibility, it's interesting the OP didn't come back yet.
 
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Mattopotamus

Member
Jun 7, 2020
361
284
Atlanta
I think this is a problem between you and Carvana. Generally speaking, I think this whole software driven vehicle problem is going to get worse as more manufacturers are using a lot of reconfigurable software in their vehicles. There is a already a lot of friction between owners of farm equipment and equipment companies such as John Deere not being able to fix or get their equipment fixed at anyone other than the original dealers (at exorbitant prices) due to the manufacturers not allowing anyone to change or use the the equipments' software.


The question is starting to become, do you actually completely own your car? I think the Congress will end up having to pass laws about this at some point.

The OPs situation is even more of a reason for subscription based models with these cars. Have these features follow the user's Tesla account and not the car. Would be awesome to be able to login to any Tesla and based on your subscription have features unlocked.
 
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SMAlset

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2017
9,191
10,058
SF Bay Area
Would you have purchased the Model 3 if it did not have autopilot as the feature, probably not.

If it is listed on the vehicle sale sticker you are supposed to have that feature on the vehicle otherwise it is misrepresentation by both the dealership & manufacturer.

As a former vehicle sales manager I have seen these issues on other vehicles occur often, either the manufacturer, dealership, or both pay for the repair or replacement. So this is both on Tesla & Carvana, if your vehicle is under warranty, by Carvana or Tesla or both they will be required to replace the feature to make it available to you, because you paid for it. So in those terms you have the right to return the car to Carvana, & dispute through arbitration, which I would not hesitate doing. They will fix it because it will cost them more not to.

I had this similar issue with the preowned Model S I purchased through Tesla. After a few contacts both in email, & phone; informing them the reason I bought the vehicle was because it came with this feature, listed as included although this did not escalate to this step, I would have no choice but to return the car, & file a dispute for misrepresented features I already paid for if it isn't resolved through update. I had every right to. So after that trip up the 405 it was installed.
Did you miss this was a used car sale though? Original owner could have made a few changes to it from when bought it, both downgrading the software or upgrading it.
 

sroy

Closed
Mar 13, 2021
542
232
New Jersey
Caravana also has LR AWD listed as Performance. I think they have no clue what’s included or not.
Yeah I got curious as well and took a look and saw one labeled as SR but the screen picture showed SR+ and a few other weird things. Based on my browsing their page I would not be comfortable buying a tesla from them.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,969
6,074
Did you miss this was a used car sale though? Original owner could have made a few changes to it from when bought it, both downgrading the software or upgrading it.
Yep. Being a used car changes things drastically (even though I'm not convinced even on a new car, the Monroney sticker is ever a binding contract in the first place, as the order agreement and any due bill items should override it).

In a used car, the Monroney sticker goes out the window because the original owner can make modifications to the car, so it doesn't make sense to hold the manufacturer to a sticker that no longer applies. A Monroney sticker is not a legal requirement at all for a used car sale in the first place.
 

bjrosen

Member
Apr 19, 2019
322
333
Westford MA
The OPs situation is even more of a reason for subscription based models with these cars. Have these features follow the user's Tesla account and not the car. Would be awesome to be able to login to any Tesla and based on your subscription have features unlocked.
At the very least it would be nice if FSD followed the owner not the car. Even if there was a transfer fee of a couple of thousand that would be better than the situation we have now. If you bought FSD you have a huge disincentive towards doing a tradein for a newer model because you can't recover a reasonable fraction of the cost.
 
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T3SLAROD

Member
May 14, 2019
879
830
SoCal
Yeah I got curious as well and took a look and saw one labeled as SR but the screen picture showed SR+ and a few other weird things. Based on my browsing their page I would not be comfortable buying a tesla from them.

Another crazy thing about Carvana, my car is worth more without FSD lol
 

StellarRat

Active Member
Jan 8, 2014
1,524
1,509
Pacific
The OPs situation is even more of a reason for subscription based models with these cars. Have these features follow the user's Tesla account and not the car. Would be awesome to be able to login to any Tesla and based on your subscription have features unlocked.
I disagree completely with this. The last thing I want is for some company to continue sucking money out of me forever and potentially raising prices at will on what I supposedly already own. For example: Microsoft 365 Personal is $69.99 a year, EVERY year. That's potentially $700 for 10 years of use without any prices increases while a single copy of Office 2019 Home is $150 ONCE. You bet companies like subscriptions it lets them suck you dry.
 

sroy

Closed
Mar 13, 2021
542
232
New Jersey
I disagree completely with this. The last thing I want is for some company to continue sucking money out of me forever and potentially raising prices at will on what I supposedly already own. For example: Microsoft 365 Personal is $69.99 a year, EVERY year. That's potentially $700 for 10 years of use without any prices increases while a single copy of Office 2019 Home is $150 ONCE. You bet companies like subscriptions it lets them suck you dry.
I get what you're trying to say but this is the perfect poor example. First there are some MS windows license that stick to one computer. Second, the flat fee is about 3x+ the yearly fee so it's more a matter of can I afford upfront or not. Lastly the FSD is paid for per car so if you switch car every 2-3 years like many do, that's way more expensive than a subscription.

Also you can cancel a subscription but the FSD can be refunded only once (unless it isn't; unlike MS windows)
 
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brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,086
6,645
Austin, TX
My opinion - the problem with FSD in the used resale market is simply that it is a promise or a wish. There is really no value to the average person, esp one that doesn't follow Tesla.

No sane used car dealer is going to pay more for a car with FSD over another car because they really cannot sell it for a premium right now. And if others won't pay more for it, Tesla isn't going to pay more either. It's simply the market price.

Now, Tesla perhaps should be motivated to pay more (or transfer on trade in) to get someone to buy a new car and make more money.

But, the real point in time when it will make a difference in the used car market is when it actually does something. You can sit in the car and experience it. Then a consumer will pay more to Used Car Dealer for the feature. So Used Car dealer will start paying more for those used cars.

If FSD ever materializes it will make a huge difference on the resale market.

That is, until there is completition that drives down the cost of FSD if/when it becomes a commodity.
 
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Mattopotamus

Member
Jun 7, 2020
361
284
Atlanta
My opinion - the problem with FSD in the used resale market is simply that it is a promise or a wish. There is really no value to the average person, esp one that doesn't follow Tesla.

No sane used car dealer is going to pay more for a car with FSD over another car because they really cannot sell it for a premium right now. And if others won't pay more for it, Tesla isn't going to pay more either. It's simply the market price.

Now, Tesla perhaps should be motivated to pay more (or transfer on trade in) to get someone to buy a new car and make more money.

But, the real point in time when it will make a difference in the used car market is when it actually does something. You can sit in the car and experience it. Then a consumer will pay more to Used Car Dealer for the feature. So Used Car dealer will start paying more for those used cars.

If FSD ever materializes it will make a huge difference on the resale market.

That is, until there is completition that drives down the cost of FSD if/when it becomes a commodity.

IMO, it is never going to scratch the surface of what people that paid $10K are epecting. At least not in the car they are driving today. I think the real reason they are switching to the subscription is because the % of people taking FSD at $10K is unbelievably low.
 

GZDongles

Member
Feb 23, 2020
225
289
Michigan
IMO, it is never going to scratch the surface of what people that paid $10K are epecting. At least not in the car they are driving today. I think the real reason they are switching to the subscription is because the % of people taking FSD at $10K is unbelievably low.
Although if someone paid $10k for FSD, they bought it within the last year and therefore should have known that they weren't getting a L5 autonomous system!

The best thing Tesla could do is to change the name to reflect the reality of what people are buying to avoid confusion (or the less charitable explanation that it's deliberate false advertising). The not so fine print is very clear about what the buyer is getting, but I don't blame people for being confused when it's called "Full Self Driving".
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,804
12,526
Riverside Co. CA
This isnt another "is FSD worth it" thread. There are plenty of those. This thread is about whether the OP can expect to get regular autopilot added back onto a used car that tesla removed it from, because they say the car is not supposed to have it.
 
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bro1999

Active Member
Apr 26, 2016
2,244
2,778
Maryland
Disclosure: not a lawyer


The important bit is: "However, this law does not apply to the purchase of a used car. In theory, the sticker was already delivered on the vehicle when it was first sold to the original buyer. Therefore, installed options could have been removed from the car since that point when the accessory actually had to be there."
Like if a car was ordered with OEM all weather floor mats, extra charge cord, roof rack, etc. Those would show up on the Monroney sticker but that doesn't mean when you sell/trade in the vehicle all those accessories MUST stay with the car.
 

MikeyMikeD

Member
Jun 7, 2020
169
129
Ohio
Like if a car was ordered with OEM all weather floor mats, extra charge cord, roof rack, etc. Those would show up on the Monroney sticker but that doesn't mean when you sell/trade in the vehicle all those accessories MUST stay with the car.
I agree with that, but if it was advertised as such by Carvana then it should be honored by the seller.... The issue isn't what was on the original Monroney sticker, it was what was listed on Carvana not matching what was delivered.

And where is the OP on all of this? 1 post and then radio silent??
 

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