State based EV road user charge (Overturned 18/10/23)

[SPadival]

Interesting..

Victoria’s EV Tax is a joke, they have no idea how much it raised and where the money went

Breaking: Victoria's EV Tax is a joke, they have no idea how much it raised and where the money went - techAU

Looking for the latest news, reviews, and insights on technology in Australia? Look no further than our tech website! From the newest gadgets to the latest software releases, we've got you covered with up-to-date information and expert analysis. Stay ahead of the curve and explore the world of...

techau.com.au

 

[cafz]

Local councils in SA also have responsibilities for maintaining roads, but they have no mechanism for a road user charge

Councils are entirely subsidiary creations of the state government.

 

[Thirteen]

Interesting..

Victoria’s EV Tax is a joke, they have no idea how much it raised and where the money went

Breaking: Victoria's EV Tax is a joke, they have no idea how much it raised and where the money went - techAU

Looking for the latest news, reviews, and insights on technology in Australia? Look no further than our tech website! From the newest gadgets to the latest software releases, we've got you covered with up-to-date information and expert analysis. Stay ahead of the curve and explore the world of...

techau.com.au

Wow that is pretty shocking!! Just goes to show u how useless and ineffective these government departments can really be!

 

[Vostok]

Victoria’s EV Tax is a joke, they have no idea how much it raised and where the money went

Asking where money that goes into consolidated revenue ends up is pointless though. It’s like asking where specifically have your income taxes ended up. Neither VIC (nor NSW) have promised or sequestered these funds for road building or maintenance. But more money in the bank means they can spend more money on everything, including roads.

Having said that, they should know exactly how much ZLEV tax has been collected to date at the click of a button, since it is an itemised charge calculated on submitted odometer readings. Their financial invoicing and accounting systems must be very bad if they can’t answer that easily. But asking where that money went is ridiculous.

 

[Quickst]

Local councils in SA also have responsibilities for maintaining roads, but they have no mechanism for a road user charge

Personally that indicates to me that Aus is overgoverned.
Get rid of one tier of government

 

[paulp]

Personally that indicates to me that Aus is overgoverned.
Get rid of one tier of government

I say two tiers, the governor general plus one other

 

[EcoCloudIT]

I say two tiers, the governor general plus one other

I’m all for streamlining….

 

[Onshore]

What ever happened to the high court challenge?

 

[Vostok]

What ever happened to the high court challenge?

The judgment hasn’t been handed down yet. This case is the second oldest on the Court’s list for which that is the situation.

The justices must be finding this one particularly difficult to rule on. There’s a saying “quick to convict, slow to acquit” which could imply the plaintiffs will lose… or it might not

 

[dronus]

Their financial invoicing and accounting systems must be very bad if they can’t answer that easily. But asking where that money went is ridiculous.

They know where it goes, but also know that we would not like it if we found out as the roads themselves are a clear indication that all of the money collected "to maintain the roads" is not going there, so they dont tell us, and treat us like idiots.

 

[ZeeDoktor]

There's a surprising lack of transparency and, consequently, accountability in the Australian political system.

The fact that VIC Roads considers their clientele "customers" speaks volumes about the degree of delusion they are misguided by. I'd propose that in the absence of a competitive alternative, the term "customer" is little more than a euphemism for "hostage".

But then again, we're used to that in Australia. From grocery chains, banks, insurances, home hardware chains... there are so few options in each of those categories that we're used to the "few-opolies" that render us all.... hostages.

So for all intents and purposes, Australia is and remains an island. Perhaps not geologically speaking, but economically, for sure.

 

[Vostok]

They know where it goes, but also know that we would not like it if we found out as the roads themselves are a clear indication that all of the money collected "to maintain the roads" is not going there, so they dont tell us, and treat us like idiots.

Consolidated revenue is not like that. We know where consolidated revenue goes, but it’s impossible to identify a pathway of specific dollars incoming to a specific expenditure, unless the monies raised are sequestered for a particular purpose. Which in this case, they are not.

Let’s say there’s a kids birthday party. Every parent tips a number of identical black jellybeans into a jar which was already half full with black jellybeans. Those jellybeans are then distributed to the kids and there are some leftovers. Exactly how many of your jellybeans were given to young Billy and not to young Jessica? No way to know.

Certainly in NSW the massive expansion in DCFC infrastructure under the $170M Drive Electric grants would have been unlikely to survive the budget process without the promise of future RUC revenue to partially offset it. But how much would they have spent without that? And what proportion of the RUC will go towards it? Impossible to know, impossible to tell, impossible to measure. It’s all one big bucket of money.

However there is no excuse to not know exactly how much revenue the RUC raises once it comes into effect, and I expect NSW will be able to answer that question easily, even though VIC apparently cannot. After all, NSW is the only state with real-time vehicle registration data, sliced and diced in every conceivable manner, freely available online:

Microsoft Power BI

app.powerbi.com

For example, I can tell you in NSW there are 41,083 battery EVs registered, 24,533 of those are Teslas, and 1978 of those are red.

I get people are cynical about these things, but I’m not about to jump on the bandwagon when people expect the absurd.

 

[dronus]

Consolidated revenue is not like that. We know where consolidated revenue goes, but it’s impossible to identify a pathway of specific dollars incoming to a specific expenditure, unless the monies raised are sequestered for a particular purpose. Which in this case, they are not.

Let’s say there’s a kids birthday party. Every parent tips a number of identical black jellybeans into a jar which was already half full with black jellybeans. Those jellybeans are then distributed to the kids and there are some leftovers. Exactly how many of your jellybeans were given to young Billy and not to young Jessica? No way to know.

Certainly in NSW the massive expansion in DCFC infrastructure under the $170M Drive Electric grants would have been unlikely to survive the budget process without the promise of future RUC revenue to partially offset it. But how much would they have spent without that? And what proportion of the RUC will go towards it? Impossible to know, impossible to tell, impossible to measure. It’s all one big bucket of money.

However there is no excuse to not know exactly how much revenue the RUC raises once it comes into effect, and I expect NSW will be able to answer that question easily, even though VIC apparently cannot. After all, NSW is the only state with real-time vehicle registration data, sliced and diced in every conceivable manner, freely available online:

Microsoft Power BI

app.powerbi.com

For example, I can tell you in NSW there are 41,083 battery EVs registered, 24,533 of those are Teslas, and 1978 of those are red.

I get people are cynical about these things, but I’m not about to jump on the bandwagon when people expect the absurd.

I understand, and thank you for explaining.

(steps up onto soap box)
In an effort to build confidence and trust in the governments some level of transparency should be afforded. Especially is a tax is collected in the name of something, there should be some confidence how much is raised, and that the revenue would be spent in that area. If i collect donations for a charity, and instead of giving it to the charity i go and buy myself some snap pants and a hyper color T-shirt, im pretty sure id be asked to explain at some stage hahaha,

Perhaps Taxes on specific things which are passed through legislation, and sold to the public under a (sometimes emotional) pretense such as roads/fuel, environment, health (booze and smoking etc) shouldn't go into a consolidated revenue? I wonder if the "victims of crime" levy people pay on expediting fines goes to victims of crimes, or is untraceable so can be used to do whatever else.. it doesn't pass the pub test and Victoria should be able to explain whats going on, cant just put hands in the air and say its too hard.. Im guessing the courts will sort that out
(steps off soap box)

 

[paulp]

Consolidated revenue is not like that. We know where consolidated revenue goes, but it’s impossible to identify a pathway of specific dollars incoming to a specific expenditure, unless the monies raised are sequestered for a particular purpose. Which in this case, they are not.

Let’s say there’s a kids birthday party. Every parent tips a number of identical black jellybeans into a jar which was already half full with black jellybeans. Those jellybeans are then distributed to the kids and there are some leftovers. Exactly how many of your jellybeans were given to young Billy and not to young Jessica? No way to know.

Certainly in NSW the massive expansion in DCFC infrastructure under the $170M Drive Electric grants would have been unlikely to survive the budget process without the promise of future RUC revenue to partially offset it. But how much would they have spent without that? And what proportion of the RUC will go towards it? Impossible to know, impossible to tell, impossible to measure. It’s all one big bucket of money.

However there is no excuse to not know exactly how much revenue the RUC raises once it comes into effect, and I expect NSW will be able to answer that question easily, even though VIC apparently cannot. After all, NSW is the only state with real-time vehicle registration data, sliced and diced in every conceivable manner, freely available online:

Microsoft Power BI

app.powerbi.com

For example, I can tell you in NSW there are 41,083 battery EVs registered, 24,533 of those are Teslas, and 1978 of those are red.

I get people are cynical about these things, but I’m not about to jump on the bandwagon when people expect the absurd.

is the result any different if the jellybean jar is half empty?

 

[dronus]

is the result any different if the jellybean jar is half empty?

Or if the person holding the jelly bean jar says to one of the other parents that they will sneak a quantity of the jelly beans from the jar to them without telling the other parents as long as they dont tell anyone that they are sleeping together. I think that's what happened in NSW? We don't get much news down here in Adelaide haha.

 

[cafz]

If you want to get a sense of how much money is being spent on roads in Victoria, grab Budget Paper #4 - State Capital Program and scroll down to the Depart of Transport and Planning section. Look for the road projects in amongst the other transport projects - for example you'll see $371M to be spent in 2023-2024 on level crossing removals, $5.8M on "Delivering better local roads (metropolitan various)", $50M on "Road maintenance and renewal (statewide)" and a bunch of others.

Projects with Commonwealth contribution amounts are noted so you can see how much is coming from the Vic Government revenue (none of the ones I listed above have Commonwealth contributions).

You'll see they spend a lot more on roads than they get in from the RUC.

 

[schnaxxl]

For example, I can tell you in NSW there are 41,083 battery EVs registered, 24,533 of those are Teslas, and 1978 of those are red.

I get 1978 red - maybe doing it wrongly
worst is that 11,888 ie six times that number are white, like mine

 

[cafz]

The judgement in Vanderstock & Anor v. Victoria will be delivered in Canberra on Wednesday October 18th at 9:45am.

 

[ZeeDoktor]

What wonderful rules of procedure. Have they agreed on the ruling over a beer last night but haven't written the judgment yet? Why don't they just release it when they make the announcement?

I will appropriate that methodology for when I discover a planet killer asteroid. I'll let the public know by way of a notice of intent to release the details of an all life on planet earth ending event, to be published at a bizarrely specific time on a random day next week.

 

[Vostok]

What wonderful rules of procedure. Have they agreed on the ruling over a beer last night but haven't written the judgment yet? Why don't they just release it when they make the announcement?

Assuming this isn’t a cynical comment the judgment(s) have already been written by the justices. The High Court won’t announce a judgment will be handed down until all justices have completed their work. Each justice can write their own judgment, or two or more justices can agree to write a joint concurring or dissenting judgement, or the court might write a unanimous judgment.

Each judge will find in favour of either the plaintiff or the defendant, and whichever side gets the majority in their favour wins the case. It can go from 7-0 to 0-7 or anything inbetween.

HC judgments aren’t things that are just dumped online, uncontrolled, with no explanation from the court itself. This case has potentially profound Constitutional consequences for taxation law in this country.

Sorry for the dry and overly serious response…