SalisburySam
Active Member
Likewise, but agreement was never necessary, only compliance. Gosh, you really will need a post #75 refresher, stat.
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Still hate v11
- Thread starter insaneoctane
- Start date
My measure of the auto features is can I live with their performance and leave them on? There has been firmware builds where I Das ok and used them, but that was over a year ago. Today they turn on and off WAY TOO OFTEN. I am embarrassed for passengers or anyone behind me for the indecision of highbeams. Off it goes. Wipers. Same story, I have had firmwares where the auto wipers were acceptable, but it's been a while. Today, hyper speed is stupid. Only when beta FSD turns wipers on my just CLEANED car is more irritating. Feature off. I do love my car, but don't think it's all rainbows and unicorns
Change is not always progress - V11 is a clear evidence of that. However, all companies make mistakes (anyone remembers Porsche 944?). And that is the difference - great companies can recognize the mistake and deal with it. I can understand if V11 somehow “slipped” (although, that begs the question what else slipped). The infuriating part is that they not only ignore the issue but they are proud of the disaster that V11 is. Which means that the problem is much, much deeper than V11. I am not that type of person who would short their stock because I believe in their original mission but while Elon was a visionary; now, he is a distraction - does anyone know what Tesla mission is now?! They better go back to basics; otherwise, they are in for some nasty surprises. Even Sandy Munro, that staunch Tesla supporter, said that the FSD is crap. That should send some flashing red light somewhere within Tesla.
I could deal with a lot of quirks and have already accepted that in many aspects my Tesla is inferior to my older cars. I am perfectly fine for them to monkey around with the “entertainment” part of the UI - I have already given up on it and use my phone for music, podcast, and sometimes even navigation. But there are crucial things that are a deal breaker - the HVAC/seat warmers and the defogger are major ones. Actually, had I known the things I know now, I would have not bought the car. You can call it “buyers remorse” but the car I bought was different than the car I have now. Someone can say that I should have expected the UI to change. Yes, but I have never anticipated that they would not only going to mess it up in a major way (to the point that I have difficulties operating basic functions) but worse - that they would force it on me. $100k+ create certain expectations and when they are not met you will have some disenfranchised customers - who can quickly turn from Tesla promoters to Tesla detractors. Trust is easily destroyed and very, very hard to earn back.
Merrill
Merrill
To me it is frustrating that nothing is being done to correct this mess, if they do not think it is a mess that’s disturbing. If they know it is a mess and have not tried to correct it that is also disturbing.
“…you will have some disenfranchised customers - who can quickly turn from Tesla promoters to Tesla detractors. Trust is easily destroyed and very, very hard to earn back.”
Amen.
Amen.
I saw a comedy show a long time ago wherein a group was exploring a cave. One of the younger ones was wearing his miner's cap backwards, with the light facing behind him. He was stumbling and running into things constantly. When asked why he was wearing it that way, he pointed at it and replied, "Dude, do you know how cool this looks?!"
This is a perfect metaphor for V11 and UI trends in general.
This is a perfect metaphor for V11 and UI trends in general.
I can’t even wrap my head around that. I’ve put 12k miles on my 2022 MYP In 3 months. Probably 80% of that is on AP through in the Bay Area with constant freeway/highway changing and city streets. It’s NEVER slammed on the brakes. It goes down 5-10mph sometimes because of semis or sharp turns, but not in a startling way. It’s smooth. Just a tap on it’s brakes. My high beams work great. Especially in hilly curvy areas like highway 17. It gently slows for sharper turns. I love it. Literally 150+ miles a day on AP. Unless I have a unicorn, I think this is blown out of proportion and people are just startled by the car even touching the brakes because of lack of controlling it themselves.
Recalibrate your cameras lol
Boomers everywhere who can’t trust their cars to drive themselves.
SalisburySam
Active Member
Definitely a boomer here. It is interesting though that I DO trust completely my plane’s ability to fly itself, and absolutely suffer trust issues with my car’s squirrelly self-driving attempts. You’re validated, so rejoice!
Merrill
Merrill
I have been into cars my whole life and I love driving them hardly ever use AP and it is not about trusting FSD, if it ever happens I will not use it.
By the way, I don’t mean boomer in a derogatory way lol. Better than saying a specific age you know? Interesting that you’ll trust IFR and stuff like that but not the computer in the car. It took me a few times of just giving the car a chance when it came to fixing it’s own errors, like changing lanes on its own then quickly changing its mind. I’ve just come to trust it.
FastEddieB
Member
I’m a 72 y.o. Boomer. I got dropped into the Tesla world recently at ver 11, so I was never spoiled by 10.
My frame of reference is a truly primitive horrible UI on a 2011 Ford Flex, followed by a much better UI on our 2018 Honda Clarity, which was still apparently kind of clunky compared to Honda’s latest offerings. Compared to those, v11 is an order-of-magnitude better, though not without some minor irritations. Most times it just does what I want it to do, often in clever ways.
But as I’ve said, “the perception is the reality”. So those perceiving that v11 sucks bigly need no further justification. And I’ll stipulate from the vocal condemnation here that v11 must have been a big step backwards. A Tesla owning friend - on his third - just said he didn’t much care for the upgrade, and left it at that.
Anyway, let’s hope Tesla is getting wind of some of the vitriol V11 has generated, and has v12 correct some of the worst UI mistakes. Fingers crossed.
My frame of reference is a truly primitive horrible UI on a 2011 Ford Flex, followed by a much better UI on our 2018 Honda Clarity, which was still apparently kind of clunky compared to Honda’s latest offerings. Compared to those, v11 is an order-of-magnitude better, though not without some minor irritations. Most times it just does what I want it to do, often in clever ways.
But as I’ve said, “the perception is the reality”. So those perceiving that v11 sucks bigly need no further justification. And I’ll stipulate from the vocal condemnation here that v11 must have been a big step backwards. A Tesla owning friend - on his third - just said he didn’t much care for the upgrade, and left it at that.
Anyway, let’s hope Tesla is getting wind of some of the vitriol V11 has generated, and has v12 correct some of the worst UI mistakes. Fingers crossed.
Didn’t much care for the upgrade.
THATS a fair reaction. Opinion expressed, and moved forward. People here act like the sky is falling if they don’t LOVE something lol
Elon is taking a concept from software industry and applying it to the automotive industry. The issue is that not all analogies work.
For example, the switching cost in SaaS is on magnitude lower than in automotive. If Google messes the interface I could relatively easy move to Microsoft. When Google fixes it I will come back. The car is much more committed decision (especially at $100k+ range).
In the traditional model the acquisition cost of a customer is pretty high - you have dealers, car salesmen, etc. - so you are very careful at the lifetime value from a customer. You work to establish relationship so they come back and buy again, somewhat insensitive for the price because they trust you. MB, Audi, BMW, Toyota, etc. are very good at that.
In the SaaS industry, because the cost of acquisition is so low, instead of relationship you have a transaction. So, Elon is treating this as a transaction, hence, the sub-zero focus on the existing customers. Also, his compensation is structured that way.
All in all, Tesla behaves like a SaaS startup, not a car manufacturer. However, there is a reason why other manufacturers do not behave that way. I have seen too many software companies that question everything (very exhausting because of the lack of focus - kind of like the Tesla robot) and believe that the world was either stupid or did not exist before them (kind of like the V11 debacle).
Inevitably, there will be a learning event.
Done it many times.
Just go I-5 to Tahoe. There is an overpass in Colfax that inevitably slams on the brakes when going West in the afternoon. I have learned to turn off the AP when I get close.
On the downhill, where the recommended speed limit is 55mph and there is no shoulder, if you encounter a semi then the AP is practically unusable until you pass it.
There are more but those are particularly bad.
Iain
Member
I’m not sure what planes autopilot you trust so much, but in my 22K flight hours I never leave the autopilot alone. Just saying I’d be getting violations fairly often on SID’s and STARS if I left it alone.
FastEddieB
Member
The Most common query in modern “Technologically Advanced Aircraft” is, “Why is it doing that???”
Iain
Member
SalisburySam
Active Member
Didn’t say to leave it alone, just said I trust it. And yes, SID’s/STARS can be relentless.
I consider myself a tech enthusiast, and I love the actual improvements in V11 to my Tesla such as blind spot camera, live camera view for sentry.. Heck, I even enjoyed the light show and tinkered with making my own. I mean, when I got my car sentry mode didn't exist yet. Autopilot seems a little better, wipers are still flaky sometimes.
But there are simple tenets of good UI design that were completely disregarded in V11 for a vehicle. Things that were there in V10.
Who doesn't want to see their connectivity? Who wants to press twice for something they use all the time? Who wants mysterious icons that exist nowhere else? Who wants a large panel to block up the entire screen every time you go to change a setting?
I just don't get it. What the hell are they doing with all the user data? Can't they see what we use? Unreal.
But there are simple tenets of good UI design that were completely disregarded in V11 for a vehicle. Things that were there in V10.
Who doesn't want to see their connectivity? Who wants to press twice for something they use all the time? Who wants mysterious icons that exist nowhere else? Who wants a large panel to block up the entire screen every time you go to change a setting?
I just don't get it. What the hell are they doing with all the user data? Can't they see what we use? Unreal.
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