Subaru's eyesight seems to work better than Tesla's AP

[powertoold]

Tesla's system is terrible for winding roads.

Disagree, been pretty decent lately

 

[jebinc]

Disagree, been pretty decent lately

Varies from update to update. Some updates improve it, while later upgrade degrade it. Never can tell what you're going to get with each update. Strangely unpredictable.

 

[Yang_H]

Varies from update to update. Some updates improve it, while later upgrade degrade it. Never can tell what you're going to get with each update. Strangely unpredictable.

Since you drive both Tesla and Subaru, just curios to know from you that TACC + Autosteering on Tesla vs equivalent AP functions on EyeSight, which one you'd think is definitively better and you'd pick for daily drive and road trips? Thanks!

 

[Yang_H]

Thanks! Those comments are really helpful. Maybe I'll test drive the Subaru someday to see how it works.

 

[jebinc]

Since you drive both Tesla and Subaru, just curios to know from you that TACC + Autosteering on Tesla vs equivalent AP functions on EyeSight, which one you'd think is definitively better and you'd pick for daily drive and road trips? Thanks!

The Subaru is effortless and takes no thought, as compared to the Tesla. The Tesla is more capable, like on windy/sharply curved rural roads. For daily driving, no NOA, I think at the moment/ at current firmware levels for both, I think I would chose the mindless alternative.

Edit: Both the 2020 Outback and Tesla both have over the air updates, so performance of each can change with each firmware update. Subaru's first update is expected this month (January). We'll see...​

 

[linux-works]

With FSD I feel much more at ease in the Tesla than using 2020 eyesight.

even with my glasses on, I can't see 2020.

I do think that the car sees better than me, with my 50+ year old eye sight.

(yeah, I know. 'that's the joke.')

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Edit: Both the 2020 Outback and Tesla both have over the air updates, so performance of each can change with each firmware update. Subaru's first update is expected this month (January). We'll see...​

Pretty sure the OTA updates from Subaru is just maps and infotainment. Firmware updates are dealer only.

Similar to Volvo, only OTA updates are maps and installed apps. Sensus updates are done at the dealer only, and for a fee. (Or pay for a 3 day subscription to VIDA and DIY).

 

[SunCharged]

With all the hype around autopilot, I figured it would be one of the best systems as far as basic functionality that other manufacturer's have (what Tesla calls "traffic aware cruise control"). The only similar system I've owned is on a Subaru Forester (called "Eyesight"). Here's the issues that I've come across on my 2020 P3D- (autosteer off, standard regen) that I've not experienced with the Subaru driving on the same roads:

• On a 65 mph highway, the cruise control suddenly believes that the speed limit is 30 mph and massively slows the car. This only happens for a handful of seconds, then shows the proper limit of 65 mph. It does it again a few miles down the road (but this time 55 mph for a few seconds).
  
  
• Passing a car on a 2-lane highway above the cruise set limit and then letting off the throttle to slow down (to use regen to slow the car) and the system starts to get on and off the "throttle" making the car jerk backwards and forwards even though speed is still above the set limit.
  
  
• On a 55 mph 2-lane highway, someone turns in front of me from the opposite direction (from a turn lane) but not in a way that is unsafe. The car suddenly starts braking but only after they are no longer in the road.
  
  
• The manual does mention that the system may not work correctly with "sharp curves" but something that did not occur with Eyesight is that on what I would call more moderate curves (45 limit on a 55 2-lane highway), the Tesla does this, again, jerky motion where it suddenly slows for a second and then speeds up.
  
  
• Eyesight seems to be able to recognize cars at a much greater max distance than Tesla's system. Eyesight will start to slow down the car (let off the throttle) when it sees cars braking in the distance whereas the Tesla doesn't recognize them until much closer and has to slow down more severely.
  
  
• Eyesight also does this but not as bad -> someone in front of me pulls into a turn lane off to the right (on a 65 mph highway) and the Tesla suddenly starts braking/slow down severely with no car in front of it.

I will say that the auto high beams are vastly better on the Tesla than the Eyesight which was pretty useless. Also, I like the scroll wheel for adjusting speed much better on the Tesla than the +/- switch on the Subaru, although I wish there was an option to turn on cruise control to the current speed and not related to the speed limit (let me know if there's a way to do this). Also, I would like to use basic cruise control at times on the Tesla (no dynamic cruise control) but can't seem a find a way to do this.

Currently I own a Tesla Model 3 with EAP (FSD) and an Outback with Eyesight. Even beginning to compare the two systems is laughable. While AP does vary in performance from update to update. AP updates and is in another league than Eyesight.

 

[jebinc]

Currently I own a Tesla Model 3 with EAP (FSD) and an Outback with Eyesight. Even beginning to compare the two systems is laughable. While AP does vary in performance from update to update. AP updates and is in another league than Eyesight.

We were talking about 2020, not less than 2020, Eyesight; no pun intended. Yes, Eyesight prior to the year 2020 is less than Telsa AP, but not the 2020 rendition. What year Subaru are you basing your views on?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

The OP really should have clarified in the topic headline that he's just talking about TACC.

Now I know it's often confused with AP because it's a component of AP. But, the thing is it shouldn't be. Pretty much all the issues with TACC on Tesla is that they try to do too much with it because it is a component of AP.

They weird things like slowing for a speed limit change that might either be real or imaginary. And, sometimes it will false brake because Tesla is trying to make sure that people don't run into firetrucks (which they still manage to).

All in all its really frustrating, and it makes me wish Tesla gave us the option to turn off things I don't want TACC to be doing.

I just want TACC to be very simple where it just tries to maintain my set speed in a way that prioritizes smoothness. I'll take care of watching out for other vehicles that might sudden swerve in front of it, and I'll watch out for corners, etc.

Most Adaptive cruise control systems on the market today are really simple system like the Eyesight system.

It should be laughable comparing the Tesla TACC to an ICE vehicle ACC because the Tesla is an EV. So it should always be much smoother.

But, it's not because Tesla made a mess of TACC by making it do too much.

You might as well just use AP.

 

[outdoors]

Can the eyesight systems of yesterday's Subaru be improved with firmware updates?

Maybe the question is. Can the newer 2020 version be improved in the similar way Tesla does it? If firmware updates are done only in dealerships. My guess would be that those improvements might not be as often as some are used to in a Tesla. I don't see 2020 Subaru owners driving to dealerships every six months for it, nor does any dealer want that hassle. Wish anytype of sight was available when I had my Outback. That was a tough 200k to drive compared to what I have now.

 

[SunCharged]

We were talking about 2020, not less than 2020, Eyesight; no pun intended. Yes, Eyesight prior to the year 2020 is less than Telsa AP, but not the 2020 rendition. What year Subaru are you basing your views on?

2016 Outback. What’s been updated over the years?

 

[outdoors]

2016 Outback. What’s been updated over the years?

https://www.iihs.org/media/e8f617a5-b8f8-42e6-8b0f-9f56f9cb4208/W63Mlg/HLDI Research/Bulletins/hldi_bulletin_34.39.pdf

Little old as it talks about up to 2017, but it started in 2013. Couple renditions. Not sure on the technical details of 2020 Version.

The first generation of the EyeSight system was available on 2013–14 Legacy and Outback vehicles and the 2014-16 Forester. In model year 2015, Subaru introduced a second generation of the EyeSight system on the Legacy and Outback. The second generation was introduced on the Forester in model year 2017. The first generation utilized dual black-and-white cameras while the second generation made a shift to color cameras along with longer and wider detection ranges, an increased ability to handle the speed differential with leading vehicles, and brake light detection. When evaluated separately, the first generation was associated with a 33 percent reduction in BI-only claim frequency, while the second generation was associated with a 41 percent reduction. Both results were statistically significant and it is promising that the second generation is showing a larger reduction.

Mine was 2012 Still loved her very much.

 

[jebinc]

2016 Outback. What’s been updated over the years?

A lot in 2020. Less so from 2018-2020. I had a 2016, 2017, 2018 and now 2020. The largest leap was into the 2020 rendition. Night and day from the last generation. Google search provides plenty of details.

 

[SunCharged]

Google search provides plenty of details.

I was going to Google info on Eyesight over the years....... but I have decided to just continue living my life without that search.

 

[Mr. Burrito]

I could care less about most of the AP features on the Tesla. I just want dynamic cruise control that works (TACC as mentioned) without feeling like it is some first gen system. Or if I can't get that, then just an option for straight cruise control if you want it (something that the Subaru had). Hopefully it improves over time via OTA updates.

 

[jebinc]

I could care less about most of the AP features on the Tesla. I just want dynamic cruise control that works (TACC as mentioned) without feeling like it is some first gen system. Or if I can't get that, then just an option for straight cruise control if you want it (something that the Subaru had). Hopefully it improves over time via OTA updates.

Yes, the 2020 version of Subaru TACC works really well, all the way down and up from zero MPH. "Auto-steer" is a bonus.

 

[alsetym]

If you understand operational domain you'll understand why the OP post makes no sense. A very simple system that was only designed to stay between lines in ideal conditions vs a system being developed to drive everywhere, always...how well does eyesight handle lane changes or highway interchanges. Because it doesn't have to worry about difficult situations it can be more stable in simple situations. If tesla wanted to make a similar system it would be miles better due to the compute and cameras available, but that isn't ap.

 

[jebinc]

If you understand operational domain you'll understand why the OP post makes no sense. A very simple system that was only designed to stay between lines in ideal conditions vs a system being developed to drive everywhere, always...how well does eyesight handle lane changes or highway interchanges. Because it doesn't have to worry about difficult situations it can be more stable in simple situations. If tesla wanted to make a similar system it would be miles better due to the compute and cameras available, but that isn't ap.

With Eyesight 2020, when you turn on a blinker, TACC stays engaged, but auto-steer disengages until the lane transition completes. Once the blinker stops blinking, auto-steer automatically reengages. No manual stalk slapping required for reengagement. It does not, however, automatically do the lane change for you like Tesla AP would if in AP or NoA mode.

 

[alsetym]

With Eyesight 2020, when you turn on a blinker, TACC stays engaged, but auto-steer disengages until the lane transition completes. Once the blinker stops blinking, auto-steer automatically reengages. No manual stalk slapping required for reengagement. It does not, however, automatically do the lane change for you like Tesla AP would if in AP or NoA mode.

I feel like you missed the point of my post. lane change is one of many many things AP is trying to achieve that makes it a much harder porblem to solve than eyesight.