Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[sorka]

I'm simply assessing credibility. If it actually happened it is so easy for him to get the price right.

If he made that up, what other details is he making up? Was the trade in price made up also? Was the whole conversation made up as well?

I've no agenda other than to respond with facts and evidence and logic -- and now, to assess facts, queries re credibility assessments.

Also telling now is this outraged response to a simple credibility observation.

You do know of course that a fully loaded P100D used to be $150K, right?

 

[bhzmark]

You do know of course that a fully loaded P100D hasn't been $150k for quite some time -- well before the update at issue and resulting discussions with Tesla?

Why do the people with pitch forks have so little concern for relevant details?

You do know of course that a fully loaded P100D used to be $150K, right?

 

[DJRas]

Please share more details. Did they really offer you $15k for your current car? Did they really price a new P100D at $150k? Was the context of any trade in conversation really about your battery being defective? Was it the service tech personnel that made this offer or was it a sales person? At what service or sales center? What was the full conversation? What exactly did they say?

If you want us to believe you, please provide sufficient details to make your statement credible -- or if you weren't quite accurate in your original statement, then please clarify.

PSA: If you initiate litigation, you better be prepared to stop making stuff up, and always be precise and religiously accurate in everything you say about the matter of the litigation.

Funny!!!
You want exact quotes with all of my conversation with them.
Yet they provide nothing but vague information about the reasons for the change they made to my car and that seems to be ok with you.

But, I will relate the conversation as I recall.
When I told the Service Center manager that I cannot live with any further reduction in range she said "Well, you could trade this in for a new P100D"
I replied "So, what would you give me for my car? $15,000? And a new P100D is what, $150k?"
She said nothing about my questions and changed the subject to how to improve my range by driving with the AC off and windows up.

 

[DJRas]

You do know of course that a fully loaded P100D hasn't been $150k for quite some time -- well before the update at issue and resulting discussions with Tesla?

Why do the people with pitch forks have so little concern for relevant details?

View attachment 440498

And I haven't looked at new Model S prices in over 2 years.
Why would I?
My car was perfectly adequate until this update. And even with the update it still is adequate. But, if Tesla made further changes reducing my range even further then it wouldn't be adequate.

The prices you posted do no include the 8.5% sales tax. So less than a year ago, my cost would be more that $150k.

 

[mjmiron]

Yeah who is going to drive in Cali with no AC she is high as a kite. That is just down right insulting but also funny.

 

[Chaserr]

He's attacking your credibility because Tesla sees this suit as an existential threat. They've silenced wk057 and he needs to silence you. This suit has scared Tesla as well as him. He has had no success trying to dismiss facts so now he is trying to attack your credibility in an attempt to protect TESLA from being exposed to responsibility for its actions.

We have all been given the off topic excuses by our Service Departments. We don't need apologists doing it here.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

you will have to tell the judge why Tesla shouldn’t be able to limit peak battery charge on an older battery exhibiting stress while it’s OK for other battery users to do so.

Never underestimate the value of independent, unaffected, observers. They often have more clarity. For me I think you have hit the nail on the head here. Clearly this action is sensible, but is not the point, WHY did Tesla only do it on SOME batteries and not others? I doubt anyone thinks it was just a case of random selection. Therefore it must be for a credible reason. My money is on because those batteries were 'different' to the thousands of other, older batteries, that they didn’t alter. So different that it required Tesla to take pre-emptive action. So different that Tesla went to the effort and expense of writing a complete update. How different do they have to be before they are classed as faulty or damaged; either faulty, or more prone to becoming faulty, or somewhere on that spectrum. This is where, not primarily the Warranty, but perhaps more Elon's promises that if ANYTHING went wrong, it would be Teslas Fault and they would repair or replace, comes into play. It was as close to a 'no questions asked' promise as it could be without actually stating it.

The argument that they did it for good reasons is, IMO, a distraction. If they had done it to the entire fleet, or entire pre facelift fleet, that might fly. But they didn’t. Only to about 0.5% of the fleet (based on UK figures). I find it hard not to conclude there is something amiss with the batteries in that 0.5%

 

[Chaserr]

They did it for *No* reasons. They have given none to us and lied to our faces when we asked them for an explanation. If there is a reason they need to disclose why we have lost what we paid for and why they are not honoring the warranty that influenced many of us to buy an unproven technology in the first place.

If Tesla had told the truth about their warranty and said the 85 and Performance upgrades were temporary and that I would be reverted without compensation or notification after purchase I wouldn't have made those purchases.

 

[jaitch]

Thanks. That is really helpful. I Presume the cables work for either Android or IOS.

Apologies for drifting off topic, sort of.

As far as I know yes. No reason not to work as there are generally only 4 connections:- 12v, ground, CAN3+ and CAN3-. In theory you could just use female connectors on free wires and go, carefully, to each pin. I gave up on trying to work out which connector and which pins etc and just stumped up for the pre made US cable. There is definitely a market for someone to make in UK/europe. When I was younger I would have been all over that opportunity!

 

[mjmiron]

All the more reason why NOT to end the lawsuit and it’s very justified! Winter is coming in MN I need the range back not only for safety but getting to work.

I am supposed to get an update from my local service center on Monday. Supposedly their resolution team is working on my complaint which I also filed with my states Attorney General. I am pissed as hell about this as many other owners on this thread are as well.

I have noticed their is lack of transparency on battery health. Can the service centers get the same data through WiFi as hooking up to the car? I can see why they don’t hook up to the car because it’s a pain to pull that cubby off.

 

[willow_hiller]

They've silenced wk057 and he needs to silence you.

Dude, there's enough confusion going on in this thread. You don't need to cause more by spreading misinformation.

Apologies for being purposely vague, but let me just clarify that my decision to back off on this is not dictated by Tesla or anyone at Tesla... as much as they seem to wish that were the case. I can legally continue doing what I do, saying what I say, etc... but, unfortunately, the risk in continuing to do so on this matter is just a bit too high for me to deal with at the moment.

wk057 already said they chose to bow out of this discussion of their own volition. Let them set their own boundaries.

 

[sorka]

You do know of course that a fully loaded P100D hasn't been $150k for quite some time -- well before the update at issue and resulting discussions with Tesla?

Why do the people with pitch forks have so little concern for relevant details?

View attachment 440498

The nice round figures had obvious "intentional metaphor" written all over it. Never for an instance did I believe those were the actual numbers nor did I think anyone else would. The original comment was meant to show that the car that used to be perfectly fine before the update is now worth very little and that he's have to spend a lot just to get close to where he was before the update.

 

[Chaserr]

He said he was "advised" to bow out. It's vague, but it's also clear it wasn't his decision on a whim. He also made it clear that the events leading to his forced exit from this thread indicate Tesla will not be doing the right thing.

You probably still have a few years left before Tesla takes what you just bought away from you. Enjoy them while they last.

Tesla employees reading this: Insults and distractions won't make this suit go away. If Tesla can't afford to do the right thing, offer us paid upgrades. Let those of us willing to buy our way out of this pay the warranty costs you can't afford for those who only want to be made whole. You have said it's a small number of us that are affected, it shouldn't be worth the negative publicity fighting against your own warranty in court over a losing battle for a small number of batteries, and we are willing to work with you. Just stop lying and try an open dialog.

 

[jaitch]

I found this article interesting. Not sure how it relates to our battery chemistry. However it does imply "high" current density charging with heat can reduce dendrite formation (which may have something to do with SuC preheating being implemented - just guessing though):-

You may have to register if you have used up 3 free reads:-

Fire-starting battery dendrites go with the flow

 

[Ferrycraigs]

You probably still have a few years left before Tesla takes what you just bought away from you. Enjoy them while they last.

I do love my car, even in its reduced state. I bought a S70 rather than a cheaper S60, because the S60 didn’t cut what I needed it to do. Tesla have now converted my car to a S58. So I did look VERY carefully about selling my lovely car. But who would buy (for the price it should be) an EV that appears to have a battery at only 84% efficiency after only 3 years, and can’t even get 200 miles range. There are now cheaper EVs with greater range on the market. So selling is difficult. There must be a hit on the sale price of a S58 v S70. I also took a £10K- £15K hit on its value over Tesla's great price reduction weekend. Yes both of these are paper losses, but become real losses if you have to sell. I sold all my Renoirs to buy it in the first place. I have no more to sell to cover the extraordinary further losses imposed on me by Tesla.

 

[Droschke]

I'm simply assessing credibility. If it actually happened it is so easy for him to get the price right.

If he made that up, what other details is he making up? Was the trade in price made up also? Was the whole conversation made up as well?

I've no agenda other than to respond with facts and evidence and logic -- and now, to assess facts, queries re credibility assessments.

Also telling now is this outraged response to a simple credibility observation.

I asked you 2 questions. You conveniently chose to answer the first one that you are a "credibility assessor" and are here to nitpick the absolute accuracy of every statement made by others (except the other haves of yours, of course) and totally ignoring the points being made behind those statements. I have news for you: that is not a helpful contribution to the context of this thread and the sentiment of the impacted owners. Stop it and go back watching the Perry Mason reruns.

Now, can you inconvenient yourself and answer the 2nd question I've already asked you: How many miles have you lost as the result of this capacity cap SW update? Answering this would be helpful to the context of this thread, I remind you.

 

[boywonder]

I’m in the same boat as the S70 owner above.

I love my Model S which used to have the range and charging speeds that I was very happy with.

My original plan was to keep the car and replace it with a Model Y in two years.

Now I’m not so sure. Tesla has crippled my battery pack and devalued my car. It no longer meets my needs to the same degree and I am thinking about selling it on and never dealing with Tesla again.

How can anyone trust a company that operates in this way including making dubious statements about the affected batteries and hiding behind a battery warranty that doesn’t appear to be worth the paper it’s printed on.

Am I upset and annoyed? You bet I am. Am I going to take it lying down? No I’m not.

 

[Droschke]

Please share more details. Did they really offer you $15k for your current car? Did they really price a new P100D at $150k? When did they make this offer? Was the context of this trade in conversation really about your battery being defective? Was it the service tech personnel that made this offer or was it a sales person? At what service or sales center? What was the full conversation? What exactly did they say?

If you want us to believe you, please provide sufficient details to make your statement credible -- or if you weren't quite accurate in your original statement, then please clarify.

PSA: If you initiate litigation, you better be prepared to stop making stuff up, and always be precise and religiously accurate in everything you say about the matter of the litigation.

@DJRas: You probably did not know your case has moved unusually fast to the Lake Wobegon's circuit court, and now your credibility is being questioned by honorable judge bhzmark

On Edit: Don't share anything with this judge, he is here to discredit.

 

[willow_hiller]

@DJRas: You probably did not know your case has moved unusually fast to the Lake Wobegon's circuit curt, and now your credibility is being question by honorable judge bhzmark

Assuming a settlement isn't reached out of court, what sort of time scale could we expect more news about the suit? A week? A month? Half a year?

 

[DJRas]

So, i burned off a few kWh and again tried to charge to 100%
This time is stopped at 98.7%, 223 miles rated range, 61.8 kWh, 4.096 cell voltage.

So, still voltage capped, range limited, but up from a week ago (before 2019.28.2).