Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[gmo43]

No.

Did they say what was wrong with your battery that it needed service?

 

[gmo43]

good thing I read your car when I did.

Want to look at my info? Or anything I can actually look at that may show me a battery failure? This charge rate is killing me! along with the reduced capacity.

Edit: Of course if you have time or nothing else going on.

 

[cpa]

My 2014 S85 was just totaled. I would like to replace it with another S or a 3. However I decided to buy a new accord instead due to the way tesla handled this.

The other morning while my wife and I were walking our dog, she asked me, "If you knew in 2014 what Tesla would be doing with the Model S, would you still have bought it?"

I replied that until May this year, I tolerated their poor software updates, their difficult to schedule service appointments, their interminable waits on hold, and other niggling issues that arose from time to time. I was willing to cut them a large amount of slack due to their relatively new entry into the automobile industry combined with radical technology. But after the dreaded software updates in late spring/early summer, no. Their lies and reticence to explain these issues made me lose my patience. I would not have bought a Tesla five and one half years ago had I been in possession of a crystal ball back then.

It is peculiar to me that the five years of an enjoyable experience with our Model S driving all over the country on electricity can be wiped out in a matter of seconds with a software update that just sucks the joy out of driving our Model S.

We had agreed that the Model 3 would probably be our last car purchase. But if we have to buy a new car in the next several years, it will not be a Tesla unless it has cleaned up its act considerably and is a trustworthy company.

 

[gmo43]

The other morning while my wife and I were walking our dog, she asked me, "If you knew in 2014 what Tesla would be doing with the Model S, would you still have bought it?"

I replied that until May this year, I tolerated their poor software updates, their difficult to schedule service appointments, their interminable waits on hold, and other niggling issues that arose from time to time. I was willing to cut them a large amount of slack due to their relatively new entry into the automobile industry combined with radical technology. But after the dreaded software updates in late spring/early summer, no. Their lies and reticence to explain these issues made me lose my patience. I would not have bought a Tesla five and one half years ago had I been in possession of a crystal ball back then.

It is peculiar to me that the five years of an enjoyable experience with our Model S driving all over the country on electricity can be wiped out in a matter of seconds with a software update that just sucks the joy out of driving our Model S.

We had agreed that the Model 3 would probably be our last car purchase. But if we have to buy a new car in the next several years, it will not be a Tesla unless it has cleaned up its act considerably and is a trustworthy company.

Mine asked almost the same question and I feel the same, but I would not buy another Tesla car. I said id never go ICE again but now im considering a hybrid. What a shame!

 

[First EV]

Mine asked almost the same question and I feel the same, but I would not buy another Tesla car. I said id never go ICE again but now im considering a hybrid. What a shame!

Hybrid still has an ice. I had a Prius and the battery failed. Replacement options at the time were all expensive. I am hopeful VW produces a good EV.

 

[Droschke]

I tolerated their poor software updates, their difficult to schedule service appointments, their interminable waits on hold, and other niggling issues that arose from time to time. I was willing to cut them a large amount of slack due to their relatively new entry into the automobile industry combined with radical technology. But after the dreaded software updates in late spring/early summer, no. Their lies and reticence to explain these issues made me lose my patience.

You are speaking in behalf of many aggrieved owners. I hope Tesla is reading.

 

[What Gas]

More than 4 people have posted their h aving filed complaints here already, some with full text of what was sent. If the NHTSA is having a difficult time sorting them all I recommend everyone that has filed a complaint do so again.

The link is here: File a Vehicle Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

Include this at the top:
RE: NHTSA Action Number: DP19005 - INVESTIGATION Subject : Battery Management Software Updates

That is their internal number and their internal title. Remember this is a safety complaint not a legal one. Mention that they took action to downgrade horsepower and range along with all other aspects of performance through a total voltage cap after claiming to be releasing a fire-safety update, but officially no safety update was released ever. All we want is answers - recalls have procedures that aren't being followed.

I suggest writing in your own words, the gist being something like what @jkennebeck said:

Starting with a software update in May 2019, Tesla capped the max voltage the high voltage battery would charge to. They claim they did this "out of an abundance of caution" after several non-crash fires happened to these models. Tesla took action to downgrade horsepower and range along with all other aspects of performance through a total voltage cap after claiming to be releasing a fire-safety update, but officially no safety update was released. This change happened while the car was parked in my garage and stationary.

My own complaint asked them to investigate as I would like to have a definitive answer of whether it is safe for my family to have a battery in the garage that may catch fire for any reason at any moment, and Tesla refuses to clarify why they have crippled my battery and removed $30,000. My request if for answers - recompense can come later if justified, but safety is most important and Tesla will not directly answer any questions regarding safety. Nobody will willingly update and risk losing so much value to they car on purpose, so we need to knowz:
(1) This update is a critical safety issue and worth more than money,
(2) The update is effective at reducing the fires that necessitated the updates and our homes/families will not burn if we resume parking in the garage,
(3) The downgrades are temporary measure taken while more permanent repairs are planned,
(4) people that have chosen not to upgrade, people that are blacklisted from official Tesla updates, and people that are unable to receive wireless data are notified that there is a critical safety update needed and they should schedule an appointment with Tesla to have it installed in accordance with NHTSA recall procedures.

Since Tesla has refused to answer any of the above questions and only made vague statements implying a safety risk - to the press, not to us - we seek definitive answers from an NHTSA investigation.
______________________________________________________________

Mods or @Dutchmeeuw could you add this to Post #1? There's a lot of helpful updates that could ge there to make this an easier to follow thread. We've learned a lot in the months since the reductions were first discovered, the first post is still just a simple "has anyone else lost a ton from this last update, tesla says it's normal" blurb.

Here's a list of people that filed and shared:
I did, presumably DJRas did, @lightningltd , @jkennebeck , @Ferrycraigs , I quit here but I do remember a few more people posting their text. It's helpful to see what others are saying to make our submissions more direct, I'll link them when I have time.

I’m new, so I hope this come across correctly. I am extremely frustrated with the canned responses we get when we reach out to the CS to register our complaints.

We buy a car that’s supposed to have a specific range and then Tesla arbitrarily caps it so the battery supposedly doesn’t get damaged...to me, this sounds like fraud.

In my opinion, that is faulty workmanship and should be covered under warranty. Tesla does not stand behind their car.

 

[David99]

The issue still growing and affecting more cars. I was unaffected for a while but then got hit as well a few weeks ago.

Now Tesla is now more sneaky about taking away range by limiting the charge voltage. It used to be a sudden drop. Now it's slower and gradual. I have been loosing range continuously and drastically. The only reason I notice it so clearly is because I keep very good track of the parameters and I drive very much. The drop in my case is much more noticeable than it would for others who drive far less. I have lost 15 miles (still dropping though) since then and the max voltage keeps dropping. I have driven aprox 15k miles since then (aprox 6 weeks) . It would take an average driver probably a year and the drop over that time would be hard to notice. I believe that Tesla is now gradually dropping the voltage over the miles you drive. This way it looks much more like natural degradation. I'm confident that the number of affected cars is much higher than originally thought. By applying the clipping gradually it becomes hard to notice and mostly indistinguishable from degradation. Only looking at the max voltage on the CAN bus would show it. And that's exactly what Tesla refuses to access proof.

Tesla is really messing with us here. My usable capacity it now less than 60 kWh. And even that is very hard to get as charging to 100% now takes extremely long.

 

[sorka]

String 58. Usual mv difference at 90% is 3. Usual at 35% is 6 but it's now 8. Just enough to throw it over there limit. Power and range are unefected.

 

[Droschke]

The issue still growing and affecting more cars. I was unaffected for a while but then got hit as well a few weeks ago.

Now Tesla is now more sneaky about taking away range by limiting the charge voltage. It used to be a sudden drop. Now it's slower and gradual. I have been loosing range continuously and drastically. The only reason I notice it so clearly is because I keep very good track of the parameters and I drive very much. The drop in my case is much more noticeable than it would for others who drive far less. I have lost 15 miles (still dropping though) since then and the max voltage keeps dropping. I have driven aprox 15k miles since then (aprox 6 weeks) . It would take an average driver probably a year and the drop over that time would be hard to notice. I believe that Tesla is now gradually dropping the voltage over the miles you drive. This way it looks much more like natural degradation. I'm confident that the number of affected cars is much higher than originally thought. By applying the clipping gradually it becomes hard to notice and mostly indistinguishable from degradation. Only looking at the max voltage on the CAN bus would show it. And that's exactly what Tesla refuses to access proof.

Tesla is really messing with us here. My usable capacity it now less than 60 kWh. And even that is very hard to get as charging to 100% now takes extremely long.

David - This is really awful and what I feared they would do, i.e., gradual vs sudden grab (which we went through). And, you are right that this is impacting lots of cars with most owners not even noticing the difference (or the reasons behind it). Furtive behavior.

 

[faughtz]

David - This is really awful and what I feared they would do, i.e., gradual vs sudden grab (which we went through). And, you are right that this is impacting lots of cars with most owners not even noticing the difference (or the reasons behind it). Furtive is the most polite word I can think of.

look for the TMC threads where “users” (not owners) of teslas are seeing accel and regen limitations they have never seen before. Yet another deception and theft by tesla.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I’m new, so I hope this come across correctly. I am extremely frustrated with the canned responses we get when we reach out to the CS to register our complaints.

We buy a car that’s supposed to have a specific range and then Tesla arbitrarily caps it so the battery supposedly doesn’t get damaged...to me, this sounds like fraud.

In my opinion, that is faulty workmanship and should be covered under warranty. Tesla does not stand behind their car.

People have found referring to the problem as a 'range' Issue, or 'Loss of Range' has opened up the door to Tesla responding to say there is no guarantee of Range, and that loss of Range is specifically excluded from the Warranty. Both are true statements, so any conversation about Range is always going to fail.

The issue is the capping of the battery, effectively reducing the available size. It’s the equivalent of removing your 70 gallon tank and replacing it with a 60 gallon tank, and all that that brings. ie a smaller tank produces less range, but that isn’t the fundamental problem, it’s just the consequence. There is absolutely nothing in the Warranty about restricting the size of the battery for them to use to wriggle out of their responsibility, and liability. I always advise, strongly, never to talk to them about 'range'. That’s a line of attack that they have always defended successfully.

But I absolutely agree, 100%, with your point.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

Aren't the miles at 90% rating people are all giving dependant on your driving though? Or are you quoting the non rated version you can choose in options (not sure I have the terminology right here)?

At the moment due to the hilly terrain, I am using about 370 to 390 wh/mile and in roughly 4 deg C to 7 Deg C weather your 90% charge range is the same as my 100% range.

S85 2014 115k miles

The range shown on the battery icon, regardless of whether you select Rated or Typical is a straight algorithm, ie a fixed consumption rate. Neither are really that accurate, and neither takes any other condition (like your driving style, temperature, geography etc) into account.

The only one that takes outside factors into account, and hence is the only one that is reliable or realistic, is the Projected Range figure from the Consumption Screen on the Energy App on the Main Screen.

 

[David99]

After a little more digging I realized I was actually affected by the software update back in March. I was just affected very little. I didn't think any of it back then as it was very small and could easily be explained by variations in the way the BMS calculates or other factors. But if I look at the graph now, it is actually very obvious how the capacity was reduced more or less suddenly. The BMS just smoothed it out over a certain time/miles to make it less sudden. The max voltage dropped to 4.18 instead of 4.2
Then recently the second attack on my battery capacity. Now the battery capacity dropped more noticeably. Max voltage is now 4.09 and usable capacity is down to 59.6 kWh. As a result range dropped to 214 miles. I'm now down 21% from it's original capacity.

I totally agree with what was said before, we must not argue in terms of range, we must stress the point that, without the owner's permission, Tesla reached into our cars and artificially reduced battery capacity, charge speed, performance and decreased efficiency of the charging process. As a result, our cars have less range, less performance, charge slower and lost value.

 

[boywonder]

I have a suspicion that Tesla is also playing with the typical range miles shown next to the battery symbol in the instrument cluster behind the steering wheel.

I think that the value is being manipulated and inflated over time to give the perception that range is being restored.

I know it’s winter time but my car can’t even make 70% of the range distance shown in the binnacle.

The only thing that remains accurate is the range estimates produced by the nav system when enabled.

Again this is just a suspicion. Has anyone else noticed similar?

 

[David99]

I have a suspicion that Tesla is also playing with the typical range miles shown next to the battery symbol in the instrument cluster behind the steering wheel.

I think that the value is being manipulated and inflated over time to give the perception that range is being restored.

I know it’s winter time but my car can’t even make 70% of the range distance shown in the binnacle.

The only thing that remains accurate is the range estimates produced by the nav system when enabled.

Again this is just a suspicion. Has anyone else noticed similar?

That may be possible but very hard to measure and proof. The more aggressive battery cooling certainly takes up more energy that is then not available to drive. It is a well known fact that you cannot get the rated ("typical" in EU cars) range when driving exactly at the rated range energy consumption. My car shows 300 Wh/m as 'rated', but driving at 300 Wh/m will not yield the rated range. Based on analyzing data it doesn't look like Tesla has changed the 'rated consumption' with the software updates. But then there are other ways they could fudge data.

 

[Droschke]

we must stress the point that, without the owner's permission, Tesla reached into our cars and artificially reduced battery capacity, charge speed, performance and decreased efficiency of the charging process. As a result, our cars have less range, less performance, charge slower and lost value.

Correct. The point above has been made numerous times in this thread by the well-informed owners (users as @faughtz prefers it). There is nothing normal or gradual about this.

 

[Droschke]

... the rated ("typical" in EU cars) ...

Does anyone know why in the hell they chose to call it Rated Miles in the U.S. and Typical Miles in E.U.?

 

[Matias]

Does anyone know why in the hell they chose to call it Rated Miles in the U.S. and Typical Miles in E.U.?

My guess is that it is because it is rated according to EPA and therefore not “rated” in the EU.

 

[cpa]

Furtive behavior.

Also, sneaky, underhanded, covert, shifty, and double-dealing. No matter which delicious modifier we choose, it ain't right.