Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Az_Rael]

As of now I would not buy another Tesla, period. I just don't trust Tesla any more.

Even though our P85D has not been capped, my husband mentioned the possibility yesterday of selling it now and buying a non-Tesla for the exact same reasons. He feels like his car could be capped any day, and is very untrusting of Tesla to do the right thing, so he was contemplating selling while the car was still “good”.

The only downside for selling now is he would be going back to an ICE since the other EV options out there today do not appeal to him (he is not a crossover fan). It is too bad more manufacturers haven’t stepped up to the EV plate yet.

 

[Droschke]

My 2014 p85d in 10/2019 had its 85kwh battery replaced with a 90kwh.
12/31/19 car died on me and currently is in service again to have the 90kwh pack replaced.

will keep you all updated.

A two month old replacement pack dies as well. How can that be? Unless they put in the customers' cars whatever they find without any QC.

 

[Chaserr]

QC and Tesla go together like ice cream and jet fighters. Maybe it's a great pairing but only some people get to experience it. But even if you don't get the jet fighter you still have ice cream, as long as they dont take away your bowl with an update.

 

[BigNick]

My 2014 p85d in 10/2019 had its 85kwh battery replaced with a 90kwh.
12/31/19 car died on me and currently is in service again to have the 90kwh pack replaced.

will keep you all updated.

Sounds like the refurbishment on your replacement 90 pack wasn’t up to par.

 

[supratachophobia]

My 2014 p85d in 10/2019 had its 85kwh battery replaced with a 90kwh.
12/31/19 car died on me and currently is in service again to have the 90kwh pack replaced.

will keep you all updated.

What have you been doing to that poor battery?

 

[mrneef]

What have you been doing to that poor battery?

Drive it? Charge it to 90pct? Condition it like recommended by Tesla?

 

[Droschke]

100% charge just yielded BMS info that cell voltage was 4.16 across the board for all bricks in the 90kwh pack, so can I assume this qualifies as being affected by this software update?

More detail please? The screenshots of the CANBUS reader and more info on your S90 would be helpful.

On Edit: Additionally, if you have lost significant range, it would be good to put yourself on the tracker sheet (the link is in Post#1).

 

[boywonder]

"In some cases, the FW may artificially limit the max charge level of cells with enough wear to prevent sudden and significant loss of range."

I think Tesla have chosen their words very carefully. Notice the phrase “.. with enough wear to ..”

Will Tesla next try dodging warranty by asserting owner induced wear and tear rather than some kind of battery cell, module or BMS failure?

 

[Droschke]

They kind of admitted it already in their official statement that was published by one of the EV online magazines. This basically says the same thing using different words.

"In some cases, the FW may artificially limit the max charge level of cells with enough wear to prevent sudden and significant loss of range."

"to prevent sudden and significant loss of range" ???

Unless the pack is capped by Tesla, how can the pack suddenly lose significant range by itself?

 

[boywonder]

Suffering from voltage capping and reduced Supercharging rates but did see this briefly

 

[Droschke]

Suffering from voltage capping and reduced Supercharging rates but did see this briefly

View attachment 496752

That tells me how quickly you can snap a pic.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I think Tesla have chosen their words very carefully. Notice the phrase “.. with enough wear to ..”

Will Tesla next try dodging warranty by asserting owner induced wear and tear rather than some kind of battery cell, module or BMS failure?

I think they will. But if so, it ignores the point that they didn’t warn us that Supercharging would significantly wear out the battery. And if they want to pass the buck onto the owner, then they should have warned us first, and we should have ignored that warning. In the absence of either, I can’t see how the liability doesn’t sit with Tesla.

It also means the BMS hasn’t done its job in protecting the battery from DCFC. Tesla designed the BMS. If it’s not up to the job, that’s Teslas Fault not the owners. Also, and this is key, if the BMS hasn’t protected the battery like it is meant to, and this wearing out only applies to some cars, and not all cars, that can only mean the affected cars have inferior batteries.

 

[maximizese]

Sounds like the refurbishment on your replacement 90 pack wasn’t up to par.

Or the issue wasn't derived from the battery but rather a component that is junking the battery. Hope they figure it out, it's hard to have confidence in your car's reliability when it craps out 2 months after service.

 

[DJRas]

Only problem with 100 pack is it needs air suspension, quite a few Model S (including mine) have Springs !

The weight difference between the 85kWh pack and 100kWh pack is about 250 pounds. 99% of the time my back seats are empty that can easily seats 350 - 400 pounds of adults. My frunk is empty.
The distribution of weight is pretty even to all 4 wheels because of the pack design.
So the car can easily accommodate 60 pounds per corner without disturbing the handling.

 

[MP3Mike]

The weight difference between the 85kWh pack and 100kWh pack is about 250 pounds. 99% of the time my back seats are empty that can easily seats 350 - 400 pounds of adults. My frunk is empty.
The distribution of weight is pretty even to all 4 wheels because of the pack design.
So the car can easily accommodate 60 pounds per corner without disturbing the handling.

True, but it would reduce the total cargo weight your vehicle is rated to carry by the 250 pounds. And the cargo capacity on a Tesla is already very limited. I seem to recall the cargo capacity on most Model S vehicles is about 900 pounds, so upgrading to a 100 kWh pack would cut your capacity by more than 25%. (That is right 5) 200 pound people in a Tesla likely put it over the cargo capacity before you account for any luggage anywhere.)

 

[DJRas]

True, but it would reduce the total cargo weight your vehicle is rated to carry by the 250 pounds. And the cargo capacity on a Tesla is already very limited. I seem to recall the cargo capacity on most Model S vehicles is about 900 pounds, so upgrading to a 100 kWh pack would cut your capacity by more than 25%. (That is right 5) 200 pound people in a Tesla likely put it over the cargo capacity before you account for any luggage anywhere.)

The GVWR on my car is 5,710 pounds with an empty weight of 4,600 pounds so there is ~1,100 pounds. This is a 5 passenger car. But seldom would anybody put 3 adults in the back seat. There is also 31.5 cu ft total storage capacity.
The dual motor 2014 weighs 4900 pounds.
I don't know if all of the dual motor cars had air suspension.
The P85DL GWVR is 5887. So, about 900 pound capacity.
But, a new P100D weighs the same as a P85DL so I don't know where the extra battery weight went.
So, yes, it would cut weight capacity. But a usable car with the expected enhanced range would be much better than having a local commuter car.
I am pretty sure everyone would agree to the reduced max weight capacity for 100kWh battery.

 

[FURY]

Maybe rebadging the "S85" to...

"S85G"

will be soon appropriate, if not already so.


Thank you very much

FURY

 

[islandbayy]

The GVWR on my car is 5,710 pounds with an empty weight of 4,600 pounds so there is ~1,100 pounds. This is a 5 passenger car. But seldom would anybody put 3 adults in the back seat. There is also 31.5 cu ft total storage capacity.
The dual motor 2014 weighs 4900 pounds.
I don't know if all of the dual motor cars had air suspension.
The P85DL GWVR is 5887. So, about 900 pound capacity.
But, a new P100D weighs the same as a P85DL so I don't know where the extra battery weight went.
So, yes, it would cut weight capacity. But a usable car with the expected enhanced range would be much better than having a local commuter car.
I am pretty sure everyone would agree to the reduced max weight capacity for 100kWh battery.

Would take a reduced cargo capacity to get a 100 in exchange for my royal POS V1 90kWh pack in a heartbeat! My 90D is currently down to 72kWh capacity as of Thursday.

 

[Leeboy22001]

The weight difference between the 85kWh pack and 100kWh pack is about 250 pounds. 99% of the time my back seats are empty that can easily seats 350 - 400 pounds of adults. My frunk is empty.
The distribution of weight is pretty even to all 4 wheels because of the pack design.
So the car can easily accommodate 60 pounds per corner without disturbing the handling.

Mines the S60, so weighs less than the S85, by about 300lb ?, so 550lb in total ?, I only have RWD, so don't have the added weight of the dual motor config, so maybe less in total ?

 

[cpa]

There are lots of reports on here from many owners. But it would be an error to think that all cars and all batteries have been affected. In terms of batterygate, my estimate is very low single figure % of pre face lift cars. Chargegate figure is, I think, much higher, but I don’t get any sense the % numbers are significant. I would not be surprised if the vast majority of Teslas have not been affected in any way. NB Between 2012 and 2018 there have been more than 260,000 Model S sales alone. People post on forums like this when they have a problem. People that don’t have problems tend to stay quiet.

Ferrycraigs, I wonder if you have lowballed the number of cars with batterygate. Only a small fraction of owners post on this thread, or have taken the time to complete the tally sheet linked on page 1. I have spoken with two owners of old S85s, and they were not aware of any range reduction because they only drive out of town once or twice per year on relatively short jaunts. They do not examine carefully their range meter on the instrument binnacle because their routine drives do not warrant the need.

I suspect that this issue is more widespread. But owner ignorance or inattention could easily contribute to a larger set of affected cars. Moreover, there may be vehicles like mine that will have reduced range kick in after a period of time.

o0o
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It strikes me as curious that Tesla has developed and promoted the version 3 Supercharger with its "up to 250kW" of charging power that the Model 3 and forthcoming Model Y can use. Will these batteries fail too after prolonged usage, but fail only after the four-year warranty has elapsed? How can the Tesla semi be good for over a million miles if the putative Megacharger to refill those batteries will ultimately cripple those batteries after a few years so that their range drops by 15-20%? Those long-haul truckers ain't gonna be a happy lot if that were to occur, or if Megacharging takes 90 minutes instead of 50. The Model 3 batteries are too new and have not had the extensive trials that the original S85 batteries have had over the past six to seven years. That chemistry may wind up like the chemistry in the 18650s. It is too early to tell.

There is a lot riding on the future of Tesla Motors and its innovative batteries, battery managements systems, and Supercharging speeds. I wonder if the camel has gotten its nose into the tent.