-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Hi Droschke,
The 313km where at 59KWh, when I had the 57KWh it was a horrendous 301 -302km typical range. So an extra 25km buffer makes a difference with our superchargers far apart. And with the Australian speed limit, warmer temperatures even in winter and flat terrain I manage trips at 165W/km. But I‘d be stuffed living in Germany with Autobahn and Winter...
Fatal fiery crashes in August:
Two men killed in fiery crash in Thousand Oaks
Saratoga: Man killed in fiery crash identified
I see it more emergency pressure like relief valves and emergency venting. The link I posted that explains lithium plating says they will heat up all by themselves and eventually burst from plating. The fires we saw happen when that causes a chain reaction to the next cell, and on after that.
They significantly reduced regen braking last winter. My research tells me high kW charging (like regen) and cold cells don't mix. Do you think regen played a part in plating our batteries? What other reasons do you think winter would bring more caps? Wouldn't teh heat of summer be worse? They are worried about cooling after all.
Those fires are tragic, but this thread is about cars catching fire when we aren't driving them, maybe even sleeping. Physical damage is a risk we take every time we get in a car and we accept that. What this thread is about is risks from but parking them in the garage we haven't even been informed about officially.
Just another data point. 85k miles, little super-charge, lots of regen. No voltage cap, pumps running slowly over 75% and loud over 85%. Chargegate impacted.
In this chart i already posted you can see that the risk of an onset caused by mechanical damage (nail) gets higher with the cathode potential rising. 4,14V EoCV means ~4,23V cathode potential:
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The cars which crashed were being driven, thus would not be anywhere near those voltage potentials.
The values from the chart are values you can't measure from outside. You always have the equation CV=PoC-PoA, where CV= Cell voltage at current =0, PC= Potential of Cathode, PoA= Potential of Anode.
A battery with a li-plated Anode has not the same charging curve anymore as a new battery. A battery with a massive loss of cycleable Lithium has not the same stable cathode as a new battery. Just for understanding.
In general NCA is not one of the most stable cathodes as you can see from the chart.
Btw a german engineering service gives the Tesla battery a hazard level of 6 (highest = 7) concerning nail test.
A battery with a li-plated Anode has not the same charging curve anymore as a new battery. A battery with a massive loss of cycleable Lithium has not the same stable cathode as a new battery. Just for understanding.
In general NCA is not one of the most stable cathodes as you can see from the chart.
Btw a german engineering service gives the Tesla battery a hazard level of 6 (highest = 7) concerning nail test.
Last edited:
This is a revaluation of the battery from a Model S, they inspected 2 years before. In this point (overcharging protection) Tesla and other manufacturers did a good job and the valuation got better.
In general, european manufacturer stated a self commitment to not use hazard level > 4 components.
In general, european manufacturer stated a self commitment to not use hazard level > 4 components.
No agenda - just questions.
Is there a simple document explaining the basis for the hazard levels? Specifically regarding nail test?
Is the nail test procedure used in any way particularly harsh towards Tesla cell from this era?
I think the presentation was from March 2018, so first (2 year earlier) tests maybe 2016? Do we know exactly which Tesla Model X Battery was tested and is there any liklihood that different Tesla cells (newer / older manufacture, from different packs) would give different test results?
Is there any chance of EU vs US bias in these tests? (are the test methods accepted worldwide?)
Last edited:
Concerning safety there are many things to consider, in Tesla's design some things are very good other good and other bad.
Where you always start is the safety of the cathode raw material itself (chemical issue). Here a comparision of the eneregy release of different (partially outdated) raw materials compared to NCA. The high energy release when it comes to cathode decomposition imho is a disadvantage that shows its signs in higher level of safety considerations even when it comes to Li-plating (not dendrites).
Where you always start is the safety of the cathode raw material itself (chemical issue). Here a comparision of the eneregy release of different (partially outdated) raw materials compared to NCA. The high energy release when it comes to cathode decomposition imho is a disadvantage that shows its signs in higher level of safety considerations even when it comes to Li-plating (not dendrites).
When Teslas crash at a speed so high as to split the car in two (Thousand Oaks crash), I think it's reasonable to expect the battery pack to light up. Why would this have anything to do with what's being discussed in this thread? Find a Tesla that caught on fire while parked and then we can start talking. The two fires linked are accident related and irrelevant.
All the mess with capping started with 3 fires in parking lots in China when Tesla was forced to react by chinese authorities.
Please look closely at the charts and his additional very useful (and relevant) information he has posted. The comparison "nail" test itself shows various vulnerabilities. As you have advised us previously, don't see any value to what's posted, skip it. We see lots of values in these postings.
So now we're equating spontaneous fires while parked with fires following fatal high speed crashes?
Here a littlebit of statistics about Tesla 2016-18 Model X non crash or vandalism fires in relation to gas cars (100 ist the average of all observed cars):
Similar threads
