Sudden Unintended Acceleration

[Chopr147]

If you think of your left foot as Ying and your right foot as Yang, remember to use Yang for the brake and accelerator. If you use your ying AND yang things just get confusing

 

[bonnie]

You can take pictures (or it didn't happen).

Also take a picture of the ODO to show mileage to show you're a new customer.

Post it all up as a right of entry and introduction of yourself to the forum.

Then you don't have to do anything.. but get the repairs done.

@Ying - No, you don't have to post any photos, that is not a requirement.

I'm sorry you had an accident. Welcome to the forum. Most of us are friendly.

 

[Carl]

+1 on the creep idea.

Creep should maybe default as "on" when cars are first delivered and stays on for first 500 or so, then becomes an option to slide off.

Double-down: maybe chill mode should also default on... same idea becomes available option to turn off after 500. Or maybe the initial delivered chill "thaws" slow and automatically over time... eventually uncorking what the car is meant to be, so when you reach 500 on the odo, you're good to go.

Tesla can "save the customer's face" by claiming it to be a "manufacturer's break-in period" instead of a consumer protection / nanny thing. And a little pop-up reminder if you tromp on the go pedal before 500 is reached, to explain why your car isn't going fast yet.

+2 for creep. I think, when being new to regen, you can get confused: you have your right foot on or above the accelerator pedal and you are actually slowing down (as strongly as slightly braking would do with an ICE), so maybe to slow down even more you would actually want to instinctively use that pedal even more - not a very good idea. With creep, it's really one-pedal driving: you park with your right foot only hoovering over, or applying, the brake pedal, never the accelerator. With any speeds above 10 km/h, it's a priori only the accelerator (including its regen) you'll be using.

 

[Chaserr]

Double-down: maybe chill mode should also default on... same idea becomes available option to turn off after 500. Or maybe the initial delivered chill "thaws" slow and automatically over time... eventually uncorking what the car is meant to be, so when you reach 500 on the odo, you're good to go

HECK NO! You should have seen my first romp on the accelerator entering traffic immediately after talking delivery. Ear to ear ever since!

 

[whitex]

. That resulted in an extra pressure on the accelerator pedal (essentially the pedal pushed your foot up).

Newton's 1st law - the accelerator stopped on the curb, the foot kept on going.

 

[scottm]

Newton's 1st law - the accelerator stopped on the curb, the foot kept on going.

Ya, plain and simple.

This is right.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Telemetry doesn't lie.

It can, albeit unintentionally. It depends on how Tesla has it set up. To accept Tesla's logs as truth would require 100% trust and faith that Tesla coded things properly. Hypothetically... What if one software or hardware "module" triggered the acceleration by bug or otherwise, causing the pedal to depress and a physical pedal sensor reading the pedal going down. The logging software reads this pedal press data, sees that all driver assistance features are off, and by process of elimination determines it was the driver who did it. But it wasn't.

I'm not saying this is what happened, but you certainly have to allow for the possibility. HAL can very easily open the pod bay doors, but show in the logs that they were never opened. There's no way to know for sure unless you do a deeper exploration of Tesla's process, which would require legal discovery.

My advice to the OP: It was probably user error, which is unfortunate, but if you are convinced it wasn't you then I would probably contact an attorney.

 

[jimmyjohn]

These incidents (unintended acceleration, autopilot malfunctioning, battery fires) - strangely - happen around earnings season.

 

[scottm]

If you think of your left foot as Ying and your right foot as Yang, remember to use Yang for the brake and accelerator. If you use your ying AND yang things just get confusing

If you press ying and yang (to use your paradigm) at the same time, you get a pop-up saying so.. "pressing both pedals".

Try this, by pressing both pedals:
A) at a stop - you go nowhere... no power applied to wheels
B) while driving - I believe you coast / regen as you decel... no power applied

A person trying to accel out of a bad situation and pressing both pedals at the same time in a panic to do so.. might claim "a sudden loss of power".

Finally... ALL cars manufactured have sufficient brake power to overcome any amount of "go" power you put in with the other pedal. The car will stop if you tromp on both pedals as hard as you can. (when new, and loaded within mfg specs -- another reason why cars have towing weight limits is braking power).

 

[Yggdrasill]

It can, albeit unintentionally. It depends on how Tesla has it set up. To accept Tesla's logs as truth would require 100% trust and faith that Tesla coded things properly. No good attorney would just accept Tesla's logs as gospel. Hypothetically... What if one software or hardware "module" triggered the acceleration by bug or otherwise, causing the pedal to depress and a physical pedal sensor reading the pedal going down. The logging software reads this pedal press data, sees that all driver assistance features are off, and by process of elimination determines it was the driver who did it. But it wasn't.

There's no way to know unless Tesla releases more information on how it determines who pressed what. When you have software running in the background that can press things for you, a bug somewhere can cause this and the data can be misinterpreted based on flawed assumptions.

I don't believe the cars have hardware to depress the accelerator. And the accelerator position is determined by two sensors, so both would have to act up for the data to be wrong.

 

[liuping]

It's probably related to why some people choose to turn on creep and some don't.

This is exactly why I leave creep on.

When pulling into a space or the garage with creep on I don't need my foot on the accelerator at all, it's already positioned on the brake. If I do hit the curb or parking block, and momentum causes my foot to push slightly on the pedal, it will only cause me to stop faster...

The same applies as I'm easing up behind someone at a stop light or in traffic. Creep rolls up slowing, with my foot off the accelerator. I find this much safer.

 

[MP3Mike]

I find it is very easy to engage cruise control when I am trying to instead put on the turn signal. The steering wheel conceals the levers and they are not easy to see. It can get exciting when that mistake is made.

You won't have the problem with the Model 3 since the AP/CC activation is moved to the gear shift stalk on the other side of the steering wheel.

 

[Evoforce]

If you press ying and yang (to use your paradigm) at the same time, you get a pop-up saying so.. "pressing both pedals".

Try this, by pressing both pedals:
A) at a stop - you go nowhere... no power applied to wheels
B) while driving - I believe you coast / regen as you decel... no power applied

A person trying to accel out of a bad situation and pressing both pedals at the same time in a panic to do so.. might claim "a sudden loss of power".

Finally... ALL cars manufactured have sufficient brake power to overcome any amount of "go" power you put in with the other pedal. The car will stop if you tromp on both pedals as hard as you can. (when new, and loaded within mfg specs -- another reason why cars have towing weight limits is braking power).

However... you can have uneven pressure applied between the two pedals and the greatest pressure point will react. Yes with the Tesla you will get a dash warning but that could be the least of what you are paying attention to when you are scrambling from making the mistake.

 

[whitex]

It can, albeit unintentionally. It depends on how Tesla has it set up. To accept Tesla's logs as truth would require 100% trust and faith that Tesla coded things properly. Hypothetically... What if one software or hardware "module" triggered the acceleration by bug or otherwise, causing the pedal to depress and a physical pedal sensor reading the pedal going down. The logging software reads this pedal press data, sees that all driver assistance features are off, and by process of elimination determines it was the driver who did it. But it wasn't.

I'm not saying this is what happened, but you certainly have to allow for the possibility. HAL can very easily open the pod bay doors, but show in the logs that they were never opened. There's no way to know for sure unless you do a deeper exploration of Tesla's process, which would require legal discovery.

My advice to the OP: It was probably user error, which is unfortunate, but if you are convinced it wasn't you then I would probably contact an attorney.

Two separate issues:

1. "Tesla says" vs. what was the source data - i.e. did Tesla interpret the data correctly. This one boils down to credibility and if the judge determines it's not sufficient, they can order the raw data to be handed off
2. Did the hardware correctly record the data or could anything cause incorrect data logging - this comes down to likelyhood. Again, up to the judge to decide whether logging reliability study is in order. If a police officer says his radar told him I was going 100mph, there is a possibility that there was a bird holding some aluminium foil diving somewhere in the view of the radar causing the radar to record its speed rather than mine, but likelihood is very low so the judge will not consider it. Of course we still haven't proven that we don't all live in a Matrix like environment, so this could have been the matrix malfunction too - try selling that to a judge

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Two separate issues:

1. "Tesla says" vs. what was the source data - i.e. did Tesla interpret the data correctly. This one boils down to credibility and if the judge determines it's not sufficient, they can order the raw data to be handed off
2. Did the hardware correctly record the data or could anything cause incorrect data logging - this comes down to likelyhood. Again, up to the judge to decide whether logging reliability study is in order. If a police officer says his radar told him I was going 100mph, there is a possibility that there was a bird holding some aluminium foil diving somewhere in the view of the radar causing the radar to record its speed rather than mine, but likelihood is very low so the judge will not consider it. Of course we still haven't proven that we don't all live in a Matrix like environment, so this could have been the matrix malfunction too - try selling that to a judge

That made me laugh thanks

 

[aromasca]

Important to state the OP joined today, and has exactly 1 message prior to considering his credibility. not saying that it did not happen just that without further proof it's hard to judge.

 

[Max*]

Two separate issues:

1. "Tesla says" vs. what was the source data - i.e. did Tesla interpret the data correctly. This one boils down to credibility and if the judge determines it's not sufficient, they can order the raw data to be handed off
2. Did the hardware correctly record the data or could anything cause incorrect data logging - this comes down to likelyhood. Again, up to the judge to decide whether logging reliability study is in order. If a police officer says his radar told him I was going 100mph, there is a possibility that there was a bird holding some aluminium foil diving somewhere in the view of the radar causing the radar to record its speed rather than mine, but likelihood is very low so the judge will not consider it. Of course we still haven't proven that we don't all live in a Matrix like environment, so this could have been the matrix malfunction too - try selling that to a judge

I was coming to post something similar.

I don't think Tesla would intentionally say that the car didn't accelerate when it in fact did (sure, I remember the AP1 on-ramp to off-ramp, and the 691HP, and the FSD, and all the other broken promises, but this is veeeery different).

Where I wouldn't give 100% faith is that the raw data is being recorded correctly. Do I think it is? Sure do. Am I 100% certain? Hell no.

 

[jddssc121]

This is why i use creep. I want to be feathering the brake, not gas, when I'm parking.

 

[JayyyDeee]

My sister did what you did. You guys just made a mistake and your/my Tesla paid for it.

 

[JayyyDeee]

I can imagine this is easy to not remember, especially if it results in a crash. In my recent (not my fault) accident, the police asked me if I had applied my brakes. I honestly had no idea. I thought I might have lifted my foot off the accelerator. But even that recollection was mostly guess. I did remember every detail about the other car's actions, which I verified afterwards on my dash cam, so it wasn't that I forgot everything, but my brain was hyper-focused on only a few things during the event, and my feet weren't one of them.

I was in the passenger seat of my Model S when my sister hit the gas instead of the brake and she claimed to hit the gas at first as well.(I responded you obviously F'ing didn't) *she hit my garage while parking*