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Suggestion For Change To Auto-Folding Mirror Operation

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by Andyw2100, Dec 20, 2015.

?

After reading the first post in this thread the following response best describes me:

This poll will close on Dec 19, 2017 at 12:09 PM.
  1. I do not use auto-folding mirrors and would not even if the suggested change was made.

    2 vote(s)
    2.0%
  2. I do not use auto-folding mirrors but might if the suggested change was made.

    9 vote(s)
    8.8%
  3. I use auto-folding mirrors and would be in favor of the suggested change.

    65 vote(s)
    63.7%
  4. I use auto-folding mirrors and would be opposed to the suggested change.

    26 vote(s)
    25.5%
  1. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    #1 Andyw2100, Dec 20, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
    I have started this poll to see how the community feels about a suggestion I've made to Tesla concerning changing the way the auto-folding mirrors operate.

    While many have suggested a GPS-based system, and while that can remain the ultimate goal, I fear that may be too much to ask for in the immediate future, so my suggestion is for a very basic change that should be fairly easy to implement.

    Quite simply, my suggestion is that if mirrors are folded manually, they should not unfold until they are either unfolded manually, or until the car reaches a speed of 25 MPH.

    (<Edit:>For those who never fold the mirrors manually, nothing would change. Automatic folding and unfolding would operate exactly as it does now.<End Edit>)


    There are several advantages to this behavior over the current behavior, in which the mirrors unfold on their own. For example, if a driver regularly folds his or her mirrors to pull into their tight garage, the mirrors will remain folded until after the car has been pulled out of the garage, without additional folding actions having to be taken by whomever is driving the car at the time. Similarly, if a driver has folded the mirrors manually before parking in a tight spot near walls, poles, or other cars, the mirrors will not unfold into those obstructions on their own. Finally, this behavior is more intuitive. When set to auto-fold, the mirrors fold on their own and unfold on their own automatically when locking and unlocking the car, but a manual override to fold should only be undone by a manual override to unfold. It's more straight forward, and what we would expect to happen.

    If enough TMC members respond to this poll, and if the results show what I expect they will show, I will write to Tesla again, to make them aware of the poll results.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Andy, I would say a reasonable alternative is to also use "until a 'gear' change" to also unfold. Let me explain. I back into my garage, so I fold in manually when backing in. For me, when I pull out, I could unfold manually or just get going fast enough that they unfold (in absense of a GPS option). But if I parked nose forward and manually unfolded, they could remain folded while in reverse but then unfold when put into drive. Or in my earlier example, I pull forward and for some reason then put it in reverse, unfold away. What do you think?
     
  3. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    I think it may just be safer to stick with speed as the only reason to override the manual fold.

    You may have people that have to maneuver (think three-point turn) in tight places in which they want the mirrors to remain folded. Or if someone were backing out, but decided they wanted to realign the car because they didn't like the angle they were taking, so they pulled forward, before again beginning to back out, they wouldn't want their mirrors to have unfolded at that point.

    Using the speed is safe because by the time someone is travelling 25 MPH it's a safe bet there isn't anything within a few inches of the mirrors. In fact the manual says the mirrors unfold automatically if folded at 25 MPH, but I don't think mine do, and in another thread someone else said the same. I'll check it the next time I drive, and then check with others to make sure it isn't just a problem with my car, but assuming no one's car is acting as the manual describes, I'll let Tesla know that too.
     
  4. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Wow, I didn't know about the current speed on there. Yeah, I can see your point. I hope they put this in!
     
  5. f-stop

    f-stop Member

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    I agree with the above point. I use the auto-folding mirrors and voted in favour of the proposed change when manually folded.

    Normally I want the mirrors to auto fold and extend when I get out or back into my car, eg when parallel parked on narrow city streets, so I like this option setting.

    But at home my garage is a very tight fit both in width AND in length. I pull forward into the garage and manually fold in the mirrors before they clear the door frame with just a few inches to spare. I would like them to stay folded until after I back out of the garage the next day, and not auto-unfold when I first get back into the car.

    Meanwhile to fit in lengthwise and still be able to open the trunk safely with garage door closed, I have to pull forward enough to almost touch the front bumper to the wall. So sometimes when parking in the garage I might make a minor adjustment in fore/back position by by creeping a bit in reverse then forward again. Using a gear change to auto extend the mirrors would not be desired in my case, I would rather manually extend them if I had manually folded them in the first place, as suggested by the OP.
     
  6. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    I see that so far three people have indicated that they do currently use the auto-folding mirrors, but would be opposed to the suggested change. I'm wondering if any of those people would be willing to share what his or her objection to the change would be. Is there something I haven't thought of?

    Thanks!
     
  7. bxr140

    bxr140 Member

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    The poll is a little misleading--I don't think you're suggesting the auto folf functionality changes....are you?

    I don't want to change the way auto folding mirrors work. I also don't think 25mph is a safe speed--more like 3. And, I don't think this is a good way to utilize engineering resources.

    That said, I'm otherwise a fan of 'more options are better', so if tesla could magically implement this for free and it doesn't change auto-fold, great.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  8. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    While it wouldn't cover every case, it would be great if auto-unfold had the option to be tied with Homelink and does not unfold until Homelink goes from green to white.
     
  9. kendallpb

    kendallpb Model S: P 8061

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    I don't have auto-folding mirrors on my S, so effectively I can't vote, but I do have Thoughts And Opinions. ;-) I agree with speed-based auto-unfold, but also agree it should be a lot lower (despite any current stuff) - say, 5 or 10 MPH. But I feel they should drop-down a button like the HomeLink one I see when returning home, but for the mirrors - if you start moving and the mirrors are folded, the button should show until you've either sped up to the auto-unfold point, or you stop the car, or you tap elsewhere on-screen. Just a thought. I'd love to have auto-folding mirrors one day!

    (The X will have them, right? My other half's getting an X.)
     
  10. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    #10 Andyw2100, Dec 20, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
    I am suggesting a change in the way auto-folding mirrors work.

    Right now if we manually fold the mirrors, they unfold by themselves. I'm suggesting that if we manually fold them they should not unfold until we manually unfold them or until the car reaches a speed of 25 MPH. As for that speed being safe, if you check your mirrors at a lower speed, and find them folded, you can always unfold them. The speed needs to be high enough that someone wouldn't reach it when they still want the mirrors folded. As it turns out, Tesla came up with this speed on their own. This is from the users' manual:

    --
    Note: If mirrrors are folded, they automatically unfold when your driving speed exceeds 25 mph (40 km/h). In addition, you can not fold a mirror when exceeding this speed.
    --

    I am wondering what your objection to the change would be? That question applies to any of the seven people that have answered the poll saying they would be opposed to the change. Is it that you only use the manual fold in a situation where 100% of the time you know you want the mirrors to unfold immediately the next time you start the car? If so, I'm wondering if you might share examples of what kinds of parking situations those would be.

    Nothing would change with respect to the automatic folding and unfolding, except that automatic unfolding would not occur in a situation where the mirrors had been folded manually first. If you never fold manually, you would not be affected. If you never fold manually without also unfolding, you would not be affected.

    As far as "use of Tesla resources" go, this change would be so minor, it should not take a great deal of resources for Tesla to implement, as compared to, say, connecting auto-folding of the mirrors to GPS, Homelink, etc. The current system is resulting in people damaging their mirrors and their property. There are many posts on TMC from people who have folded their mirrors when parking in tight spots, only to have them unfold into things. Below is a picture of damage caused by an unfolded mirror just a couple of days ago, from a recently started thread.

    View attachment 104866

    Tesla and SUV VS Garage Door Frame

    My solution would go a long way towards reducing these problems. It would also put a lot less wear and tear on the mirror folding mechanisms, as those of us who manually fold to get in and out of our garages currently have to "re-fold" every time before we exit our garage. And that says nothing of all the times while the car is parked in the garage that we walk past and the mirrors unfold and refold. If they could not unfold after a manual fold, all of those extra folds and unfolds would be avoided, saving wear and tear, and possibly future warranty repairs. So this could conceivably save Tesla money too.

    I am really trying to understand what utility my solution would take away from anyone currently using auto-folding mirrors, and I can't come up with examples, which is why I'd really appreciate it if any of the seven people who voted the way they did could provide a situation in which my solution makes things worse for them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    My solution is attempting to provide Tesla the simplest, quickest, easiest solution that improves the current situation.

    There are many better ones possible, if we open things up to the possibility of connecting the mirror folding to GPS, Homelink, etc. I purposely avoided those things because of the additional programming costs involved.

    What I'm proposing should be simple.
     
  11. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Tesla can make a simple fall back option too if they don't want to put in the effort to tie in the speedo or anything else. When manually closed, auto-unfold is disengaged until the mirror is manually unfolded. Thus, whenever you do not manually fold your mirrors, auto-fold will occur when you walk away and auto-unfold will occur when you open the door. But when you manually fold (even with auto-fold active in settings), the car does nothing until you manually unfold.
     
  12. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    That's basically my solution, with the removal of the 25 MPH automatic unfold (that is already in the manual, but that I don't believe actually works.)

    If the above is an easier way for people to understand what I've been trying to explain, that's fine.

    And just to add some information, we could accomplish this now by disengaging the auto-fold options, and just manually folding and unfolding our mirrors. But if we do that, we give up the automatic folding when we park in, say, parking lots, which many of us enjoy as a safety mechanism to make it less likely our cars get damaged. We shouldn't have to choose between the two. We should be able to allow the car to automatically fold and unfold the mirrors when it makes sense to, but when we want control, as indicated by us making a manual fold, we should retain control until we manually unfold (or possibly until we hit some speed, which right now Tesla has set at 25 MPH.)
     
  13. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    You are preaching to the choir here. Just don't hold your breath. Remember, this is the company that feels if you manually pause your music and walk away, it should automatically start playing when you get back as if whatever reason for manually pausing doesn't matter anymore.
     
  14. bxr140

    bxr140 Member

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    I use the mirrors to back up. I dont want the functionality to change, and most people probably agree with me. I dont think you're actually suggesting that be the case, but you got clicks on the last option because it implies people (like me) will be forced into some different kind of functionality.

    Your proposal would be more clear if you said you wanted to augment or add an option or in some way made an additional feature.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    #15 Andyw2100, Dec 20, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
    I'm not sure how I could have been much clearer than I was in the opening post.

    Edit: Actually I guess I do, and I just added an edit to the opening post. If that is really the reason some of the seven people voted the way they did, please post saying so, and perhaps we can see if there is any way to correct that.
     
  16. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    The S is limited at 17 mph in reverse. You would never experience an auto-unfold after a manual fold while in reverse if Andy's suggestion was implemented.
     
  17. bxr140

    bxr140 Member

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    The numbers don't lie. :wink: Nobody cares if you want to add an additional/optional feature that they might never know about. They only care if you're proposing to affect them directly and unconditionally.

    With respect, too many words. Your attempt to over-clarify is the exact thing that confused.
     
  18. ChadFeldheimer

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    The first time I parked the S, I very nearly tore the passenger side mirror off as I pulled out of my parking space. I had folded the mirrors prior to parking and did not realize that the mirror auto unfolded.

    I have a preference to fold the mirrors prior to parking so I can add a bit of extra distance to my parking spot neighbor on the left (there is a column to the right). This is to reduce the risk of door dings on the left. But I feel the increased risk of tearing off the right side mirror (from forgetting to refold the mirror) offsets this reduced risk of dings. So I've never used the manual folding since.

    I would actually use them if they stayed folded as suggested here.
     
  19. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    I went the other way. I turned off auto-fold and about 70% of the time I park, I just fold them manually and then unfold them manually. I also have a garage that would take out my mirrors if they weren't folded. In fact, my car didn't come with folding mirrors, I had it retrofitted.
     
  20. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    If the car is in motion, I want the mirrors to be useful. Especially in parking lots.
    Driving at 20mph is unsafe without those mirrors in the correct position.

    Actually, if parked nose in, I use those mirrors before backing out.

    If they behaved as you suggest I would stop using them all together.
     

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