Supercharger Event 2012/9/24

[Kevin Sharpe]

9. Roadster owners will not be able to use the superchargers. Some owners were very upset to learn this and requested that 70 A charging stations be installed at the supercharging stations. They suggested placing inverters with the charging stations so that the DC current can be converted for the roadsters. George stated that they will consider this, but made no promises.

It's a mistake to neglect the Roadster owners... a small investment in HPC's at these locations would have sustained brand loyalty and increased the number of road trips by Roadster drivers.

In the UK we are seeing a steady increase in the number of drivers using the HPC network and that only reinforces the message that EV's have arrived.

 

[bonnie]

It's a mistake to neglect the Roadster owners... a small investment in HPC's at these locations would have sustained brand loyalty and increased the number of road trips by Roadster drivers.

Totally agree. It would be *not right* to be charging Tesla's flagship car at a nearby Nissan dealership on a Level I charger.

C'mon Tesla. Put in an HPC at each site. Consider it commission for all the cases of Model S brochures I've handed out, all the EV events I've attended, all the people I've talked to, and all the sales I've directly made as a result of those activities.

 

[AnOutsider]

It also doesn't seem like it would be that card to add an additional cable or two to accommodate. Perhaps they don't want other cars on it? They could always provide roadster owners with that adapter too....

 

[Ardie]

Looks like Elon & Co. nailed it good.

This sweeps away a good number of "range anxiety" issues.

* There will be Supercharging stations positioned across the country to allow us to go just about everywhere.
* We will be able to charge about as quickly as we gas up at a freeway rest stop.
* We will not be gouged with ridiculous electricity prices to recharge.

Although it will be a boon to traveling salesmen, er, salespeople, I don't believe that it is Tesla's primary wish to provide electricity to Model S owners as a some kind of freebie, along with my Tesla hat and key ring.

I believe that it is Tesla's primary wish to let the Model S (and its descendants) explore this great land of ours without inconvenience and without pollution.

Capturing public sunlight for public use.


-- Ardie
And there will always be adapters for everyone else.

 

[Todd Burch]

I don't believe that it is Tesla's primary wish to provide electricity to Model S owners as a some kind of freebie, along with my Tesla hat and key ring.

I believe that it is Tesla's primary wish to let the Model S (and its descendants) explore this great land of ours without inconvenience and without pollution.

The former increases Tesla sales (ensuring they stick around longer, accelerating EV adoption), and therefore enables the latter.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree, Tesla: Throw your Roadster owners a bone with the HPC!

 

[spatterso911]

Its a pitty they won't include a standard J1772 for other brands of electric vehicles. It isn't like it would have costed a whole lot extra.

One nice thing, though. Since they are free I bet they will be more reliable since they won't require any sort of card to validate its use.

Would other vehicles be able to take advantage of the supercharger if it supplied a J1772 plug? Can they charge at a rate to match the Tesla? Or does the supercharger have to throttle down to match the car's charging capabilities. Also, does the Tesla battery cooling technology factor in somehow? I'm purely guessing on this.

 

[ElSupreme]

Would other vehicles be able to take advantage of the supercharger if it supplied a J1772 plug? Can they charge at a rate to match the Tesla? Or does the supercharger have to throttle down to match the car's charging capabilities. Also, does the Tesla battery cooling technology factor in somehow? I'm purely guessing on this.

They would need an AC not DC power. It would basically be a seperate charger on site. They could share the grid power drop but otherwise it wouldn't be integrated with the supercharge other than physical location. Much like a roadster HPC.

 

[spatterso911]

They would need an AC not DC power. It would basically be a seperate charger on site. They could share the grid power drop but otherwise it wouldn't be integrated with the supercharge other than physical location. Much like a roadster HPC.

Makes perfect sense. What about a CHAdeMO adapter for so-equipped vehicles?

 

[RDoc]

Makes perfect sense. What about a CHAdeMO adapter for so-equipped vehicles?

Given the politics I seriously doubt there will ever be CHAdeMO adapters.
However, SAE plugs may well be a future development. There have been mutterings that Tesla can produce an SAE adapter with just mechanical parts, the signalling apparently is compatible.

 

[youlikeadajuice]

Also attended the event tonight. Finer points learned from my many questions to Elon and George and JB...

10. The superchargers will remain absolutely free to any Tesla vehicle with the appropriate charging hardware. This means that 60 kWh equipped with supercharger hardware, and 85 kWh vehicles will be able to freely charge anywhere within the network of superchargers.

I thought Elon said during the presentation that 60Kwh would have some sort of an "incremental" charge for supercharger access...the hardware is included per the Tesla website.

Did they say that both the 60 & 85 would be completely free to charge during the Q&A? This would seem to contradict what he said during the actual presentation...

 

[Jaff]

Might need to suggest to TMC that they add another station in Niagara...for the time being, covering off the Toronto / Ottawa / Montreal corridor and in B.C. will be ok...

...but, Southern Ontario is the most populated area in Canada...there will be lots of Model Ses in the Toronto / Niagara / Western New York State area...looks like Western New York state is largely vacant as well...lots of Model S folks will want to drive to the Carolinas & Florida for winter vacations...

 

[JakeP]

Yes the I-79 & I-90 intersection at Erie needs one badly, and the entire NYS Thruway is conspicuously bare, save the Grey dot at Syracuse in the 5-yr window...as is the I-86 expressway across southern NY state.

I am really wondering if the red/grey dots are truly the proposed charger locations, or perhaps instead indications of cities that superchargers will be installed *between*. The Pittsburgh/Philly example jumps out here: an SC at the Sideling Hill rest area would serve traffic in both directions between these cities, as well as DC traffic. It is the obvious choice for a location, yet that entire interstate is bare except for dots in Pittsburgh and Philly, which are 300 miles apart.

 

[mnx]

Something like where I80 and I99 intersect would enable me to drive from Hamilton, ON to DC. A trip I've taken a few times now in my current car. The 2 year plan makes it look like I won't be taking my Model S that direction any time soon.

Yes the I-79 & I-90 intersection at Erie needs one badly, and the entire NYS Thruway is conspicuously bare, save the Grey dot at Syracuse in the 5-yr window...as is the I-86 expressway across southern NY state.

I am really wondering if the red/grey dots are truly the proposed charger locations, or perhaps instead indications of cities that superchargers will be installed *between*. The Pittsburgh/Philly example jumps out here: an SC at the Sideling Hill rest area would serve traffic in both directions between these cities, as well as DC traffic. It is the obvious choice for a location, yet that entire interstate is bare except for dots in Pittsburgh and Philly, which are 300 miles apart.

 

[JakeP]

Something like where I80 and I99 intersect would enable me to drive from Hamilton, ON to DC. A trip I've taken a few times now in my current car. The 2 year plan makes it look like I won't be taking my Model S that direction any time soon.

Actually if you took I-79 south to I-76 to I-70, which is only 50 minutes longer according to Mapquest (and with much less elevation change), you would be able to charge at Erie, Pittsburgh, and Sideling Hill, if Tesla used my proposed SC locations. All the way to DC for free...inside the 2-year window!

 

[mnx]

Actually if you took I-79 south to I-76 to I-70, which is only 50 minutes longer according to Mapquest (and with much less elevation change), you would be able to charge at Erie, Pittsburgh, and Sideling Hill, if Tesla used my proposed SC locations. All the way to DC for free...inside the 2-year window!

I've been that way before and yes, that'd be fine by me!

 

[WarpedOne]

Is this the "supercharging hurts the battery" issue? Considering most of us will plug in every night, that's 7 supercharges a year by my math, which is fine for what little road tripping I do. Or is my math off because I'm thinking "charging every night" counts? I mean most days I won't be charging much--it's a 50-mile round trip to work, so am I really effectively doing 52 charges a year (not 365), thus I can only supercharge once a year without hurting the battery? What if I only supercharge halfway (the 30-minute charge)...?

You are right - supercharging hurts the battery. Half-an-hour charge means 2C charging which is **very** hard on cells. Do it often and you range will go south very quickly.
Partial charges don't count as a full charge cycle. Battery rated for 3000 full charge cycles can be charged ~6000 times from half-empty to full to suffer similar capacity loss. But then there are also calendar life, average temperature, average power etc. all adding to capacity loss. It is all just statistics and actuary calculations.

 

[TEG]

You are right - supercharging hurts the battery. Half-an-hour charge means 2C charging which is **very** hard on cells. Do it often and you range will go south very quickly...

For many cell chemistries, perhaps. But we don't know what Tesla+Panasonic have done to make the Model S cells better. They may have come up with something that isn't harmed as much by quick charging as their previous generations. They are doing cells designed for auto use now, instead of re-purposed laptop batteries like they used with the early Roadsters.

 

[Robert.Boston]

You are right - supercharging hurts the battery. Half-an-hour charge means 2C charging which is **very** hard on cells.

But in a half-hour, it only charges 50%, so that's 1C charging -- which ought to be fine. More to the point, Tesla battery engineers think it's fine, and they're the ones who are in the best position to know.

 

[qwk]

They are doing cells designed for auto use now, instead of re-purposed laptop batteries like they used with the early Roadsters.

Do we know this for sure? If the 60kwh pack has the same number of cells, they can't be the same cells that are used in the 85kwh pack.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Yes, we've been told that all Model S packs use "automotive grade cells". Press release is HERE.