Supercharging classic 85, or what's left of it

[David99]

While I'm still happy with my Model S after a little over 5 years and driving 216k miles, supercharging has been reduced quite a bit. With the loss of range 268 (when new) down to 236 now, the charge rate has declined more and more. Compared to when it was new, the car now takes 25-30% longer at a supercharger to fill up the same amount of energy. Here is a capture of an ideal supercharging session with my 2014 85. It is the best case scenario. Empty supercharger, no pairing, car has not been driven much before, moderate temperatures. Often the charge rates is even lower.

 

[Zoomit]

It is the best case scenario. Empty supercharger, no pairing, car has not been driven much before, moderate temperatures.

The best case charging scenario for the Model 3 battery design and chemistry requires the battery to be at (or near) 40C [104F]. That's pretty warm and above most storage and even operating temperatures anywhere outside of Arizona.

I don't know how the early battery chemistry is different in this regard. Have you tried getting your battery warm (say, flogging the car for 30 minutes before charging) and testing the charge rate?

 

[ckoval7]

car has not been driven much before

You actually get the fastest charging rates when your battery is warmed up. Try driving for an hour then plug in. With the newest firmware, your battery heater should come on if you set a supercharger as your destination.

 

[Lukez]

While I'm still happy with my Model S after a little over 5 years and driving 216k miles, supercharging has been reduced quite a bit. With the loss of range 268 (when new) down to 236 now, the charge rate has declined more and more. Compared to when it was new, the car now takes 25-30% longer at a supercharger to fill up the same amount of energy. Here is a capture of an ideal supercharging session with my 2014 85. It is the best case scenario. Empty supercharger, no pairing, car has not been driven much before, moderate temperatures. Often the charge rates is even lower.


View attachment 428296

Similar to the rates I get on 2013 85, 110k miles, similar rated range.
I have been getting these rates for years now tho, nothing new for me

 

[jebinc]

Glad to hear all still is well after 100k and 200k miles!

 

[GHammer]

While I'm still happy with my Model S after a little over 5 years and driving 216k miles, supercharging has been reduced quite a bit. With the loss of range 268 (when new) down to 236 now, the charge rate has declined more and more. Compared to when it was new, the car now takes 25-30% longer at a supercharger to fill up the same amount of energy. Here is a capture of an ideal supercharging session with my 2014 85. It is the best case scenario. Empty supercharger, no pairing, car has not been driven much before, moderate temperatures. Often the charge rates is even lower.


View attachment 428296

My supercharging was fine until a software update last week from 2019.16.2 to 2019.20.2.1. Now my supercharging curves look like yours. This affected both my 85's, both in the 60K mile range. My 100% is 257.

 

[BlueOvalFan]

My supercharging was fine until a software update last week from 2019.16.2 to 2019.20.2.1. Now my supercharging curves look like yours. This affected both my 85's, both in the 60K mile range. My 100% is 257.

Ditto...same for me with my P85D with 38k miles on the speedo. Seems Tesla has hamstrung are rapid charging for some reason.

 

[David99]

The best case charging scenario for the Model 3 battery design and chemistry requires the battery to be at (or near) 40C [104F]. That's pretty warm and above most storage and even operating temperatures anywhere outside of Arizona.

I don't know how the early battery chemistry is different in this regard. Have you tried getting your battery warm (say, flogging the car for 30 minutes before charging) and testing the charge rate?

I have ScanMyTesla running all the time. The battery gets to 40 C all the time when SoC drops below 30%. I don't remember the last time I arrived at a supercharger with a battery temperature below 35 C.

 

[David99]

You actually get the fastest charging rates when your battery is warmed up. Try driving for an hour then plug in. With the newest firmware, your battery heater should come on if you set a supercharger as your destination.

See my reply above. Battery temperature in this case was around 40 C.

 

[David99]

Ditto...same for me with my P85D with 38k miles on the speedo. Seems Tesla has hamstrung are rapid charging for some reason.

That's interesting. I talked to Tesla bout the slower Supercharging speed and they said it's what happens when the batteries age. Your car has less miles than my car had 10 months after I bought it. Back then I got much faster charging speed. I don't think it has anything to do with battery degradation/ usage. Rather it seems Tesla realized the charge rates they were allowing in the beginning were a little too high for the long term life of the battery and dialed it back.

 

[Paul]

While I'm still happy with my Model S after a little over 5 years and driving 216k miles, supercharging has been reduced quite a bit.
View attachment 428296

I bought a CPO P85D with 80t. miles on it(with original battery), just out of curiosity tried supercharging yesterday, the charge rate graph looks 99% identical to yours. Car has battery part no 1031043-00-E. SW 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 . No noticeable range loss 340km(211miles) at 90% (or 375km/233miles at 100%)

had my car for in at Service Center and got a loaner, 2014 85, that one seemed to have newer (replaced) battery, charging was as expected - around 118kw at start and lasted much longer before going bellow 100kw

 

[apacheguy]

That's interesting. I talked to Tesla bout the slower Supercharging speed and they said it's what happens when the batteries age. Your car has less miles than my car had 10 months after I bought it. Back then I got much faster charging speed. I don't think it has anything to do with battery degradation/ usage. Rather it seems Tesla realized the charge rates they were allowing in the beginning were a little too high for the long term life of the battery and dialed it back.

You supercharge a lot, right? And you’ve only lost about 10% capacity with over 200 K miles? I’d say the long term life of your battery is doing pretty well. Not sure why Tesla is neutering the charge rates because the fleet as a whole is not showing excessive degradation.

 

[Galve2000]

your SCing rates look fine to me. yes.. they are slightly down from the maximum of 118 KW at 10% SOC.. but you are still getting 110 kW. that is not bad at all. IMO (and you are free to disagree) but there are a lot of miles on your car.. and a lot of charging cycles on yr battery. 257 at 100% Rated Miles is not bad..

 

[juliusa]

Similar to the rates I get on 2013 85, 110k miles, similar rated range.
I have been getting these rates for years now tho, nothing new for me

Yep - same for my 2013 85 with 163k miles.

It has always been this way - no change for me.

SOC+kW is between 110 and 115. The only difference I have noticed is if I charge to 100% now, it will get to 90% in about 75 minutes, then another 90 minutes to get to 100% and stop charging. I see this as a feature to help avoid idle fees.

 

[David99]

your SCing rates look fine to me. yes.. they are slightly down from the maximum of 118 KW at 10% SOC.. but you are still getting 110 kW. that is not bad at all. IMO (and you are free to disagree) but there are a lot of miles on your car.. and a lot of charging cycles on yr battery. 257 at 100% Rated Miles is not bad..

Today I actually got 125 kW for a few seconds, something I have never seen before in my car.

The problem with looking at the peak rate is that it doesn't say anything about how much time you need to charge to get to your next destination. What matters is the amount of time it takes to fill up to what you need. On road trips I need an average of 40 kWh to get to the next supercharger. I carefully analyzed the data from the early days and compared it to the current level. It turns out I need approx 20-30% more time at each charging stop to get that amount of energy. I would gladly sacrifice the peak rate if it would maintain that rate for longer resulting in a faster time to get back on the road.

Tesla is smart pointing out and advertising the peak charge rate. It looks impressive and people are happy seeing a high number. That's why they let my car peak high for a few seconds.

Just a small correction, my current range at 100 % is 236 miles.

 

[Galve2000]

Today I actually got 125 kW for a few seconds, something I have never seen before in my car.

I would therefore say that your battery is behaving as intended. I too noticed better than 120 kW SCing a week or so ago fro the very 1st time and chalk it up to my car being on firmware 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 -- the best part for me was that it actually stayed above 110 kW for the entire 9 minutes I was plugged in. (it actually stayed in the 120 kW range for a good amount of time, I was impressed) I needed 30 miles including buffer to get safely home .. and stayed to add 60 miles total... b/c the miles were piling in so fast.. why not?

my car doesn't have nearly the miles on it that yours does.

but I am heartened that a car with your milage on it behaves as it does. I would not have expected it TBH.

personally I get disappointed when the charging rate drops below 100 kW... but it really is an irrational attitude. even 72 kW is veryfast.. but there is just something about that 3 digit output that just feels really fast...

I don't disagree with you that Tesla may have changed the taper so that less electrons are pumped into the battery in a given amount of time.. but it has not effected me personally.. even as I too have had sub-optimal SCing sessions (particularly at Tarrytown, NY SCer.. which was for a long time my "Sunday drive" SCer...)

Just a small correction, my current range at 100 % is 236 miles.

just read this last bit. small coincidence, but my 90% us currently 236 -- I have charged to more than 90% only a handful of times in the last 4 years of ownership -- so I cannot tell you what my 100% is.. but I wonder if you will edit your post to add that 236 is actually your 90% also.. to which I would say.. WOW THAT'S REALLY AMAZING.. given the miles on yr car.

 

[David99]

My 100% is 236.

 

[Kenz]

Most charging should be done at home, work or where ever the car is parked for long periods of time.
As such the charge rate should be slower, (L2) and easier on the battery.
Not sure I understand why some people insist on charging regularly at a SuperCharger especially when they have other options.
Take good care of the battery. Charge mostly at home or work and keep the battery between the 20 - 80% range for most days.
Super Charge if you need to while taking a trip but that should not be your daily routine.

Sean Mitchell did a nice video explaining how he ruined his battery.

3 ways to ruin your Tesla battery and how much a new one cost - YouTube

 

[cwerdna]

Glad to hear all still is well after 100k and 200k miles!

Since you're new here, do keep in mind the OP is on his 8th drive unit: How reliable is your Model S?.

 

[scottm]

While I'm still happy with my Model S after a little over 5 years and driving 216k miles, supercharging has been reduced quite a bit. With the loss of range 268 (when new) down to 236 now, the charge rate has declined more and more. Compared to when it was new, the car now takes 25-30% longer at a supercharger to fill up the same amount of energy. Here is a capture of an ideal supercharging session with my 2014 85. It is the best case scenario. Empty supercharger, no pairing, car has not been driven much before, moderate temperatures. Often the charge rates is even lower.


View attachment 428296

There's just something weird about that graph. The green line says 'battery power' but what I think it should say is 'charging power'.

Anyway, my s85 is getting about the same charge rates at SOC at a supercharger here in 20C ambient, when I don't do anything special but pull up and start charging... (no destination setting).

I usually go from around 20% to 90% in an hour.

I think the car used to charge a bit faster in the earlier days, but not much.

They used to report Volts and Amps separately while at the supercharger, now they only show kW on the console, which is more meaningful.