Supercharging Etiquette (or a complete lack thereof)

[HankLloydRight]

Yup, yup.
-If you hear your phone
-And you aren't in the shower
-Or have fallen asleep
-Or the person pulling up ran out of juice for their phone
-And they've taken the time to look around your vehicle and find your note at 3am
-...

Please add more hyperbole.

And I'm on call 24x7 for my businesses and yes, I answer the phone at any hour of the day.

So for you there's an acceptable range of how much time people should wait on you so you don't have to be inconvenienced yourself.

Again, you're still assuming the absolute extreme. Perhaps you prefer I don't leave my contact information then? Because there's such little chance of getting ahold of me, what's the point? It's the Golden Rule -- do onto others as you would have other do onto you. I do not consider it an inconvenience if I have to call someone at 3am to move their car and wait a few minutes. I think that's extremely considerate, compared to all the other cars taking up the other SC stalls at 3AM that *didn't* leave any contact information.

Seriously, we're talking tiny probabilities (cell phone died?) within such an unlikely event (full SC at 3am?), it's insane. As I said before, if there was any chance actually blocking someone from charging, I wouldn't take up a stall. But in the middle of nowhere, SC at midnight? It's just not going to happen. And even IF it does, it's easily resolvable.

 

[scaesare]

Please add more hyperbole.

And I'm on call 24x7 for my businesses and yes, I answer the phone at any hour of the day.

Cool... you've never missed a call.

Again, you're still assuming the absolute extreme. Perhaps you prefer I don't leave my contact information then? Because there's such little chance of getting ahold of me, what's the point? It's the Golden Rule -- do onto others as you would have other do onto you. I do not consider it an inconvenience if I have to call someone at 3am to move their car and wait a few minutes. I think that's extremely considerate, compared to all the other cars taking up the other SC stalls at 3AM that *didn't* leave any contact information.

Seriously, we're talking tiny probabilities (cell phone died?) within such an unlikely event (full SC at 3am?), it's insane. As I said before, if there was any chance actually blocking someone from charging, I wouldn't take up a stall. But in the middle of nowhere, SC at midnight? It's just not going to happen. And even IF it does, it's easily resolvable.

You're now arguing that at least your behavior isn't as bad as other people's so I sincerely doubt I, or anybody else here, might change your mind.

Nonetheless, your stance is that the level of effort and inconvenience you potentially impose upon others for your own benefit is within your arbitrary range of acceptability.

I prefer others not decide such for me.

 

[brucet999]

I haven't yet taken any real long trips, so I've only used a non-busy SC a couple times..............couple questions for all of you who obviously are familiar with SCs. When using the Tesla GPS and heading toward a SC, does it have any way of telling you if the SC is either busy or even non-functioning? If you are supposed to have a long charge (say 40 or 50 minutes), and you are at a SC that is pretty busy with people stacked up waiting, do you leave a note on your car while charging if you leave you vehicle to go to get coffee or to the restroom? Thanks

There is no notification of the SC stalls being busy, let alone busy with cars waiting.

There is passive notification of a non-functioning SC. On your Nav screen, the red charging location icon will be a dull red in contrast to the normal bright red. When you touch the icon, a window pops up saying something like "Limited Service" when some of the stations are known to be out of service (for maintenance or repair) but no details are given, so you won't know how many working stations remain. If the whole SC were to be out of service, I presume that the icon might be a different color or at least the message window when you touch the icon would state "SC out of service" or some such.

No need to write a note if you leave the car, although it would be a nice thing to do so that someone might know, before plugging into the paired stall, when you had started charging, thereby giving them a clue as to how slow their charging rate might be at the beginning.

Be sure that you take your smart phone with Tesla App so you will hear the progress notifications and be able to return as soon as sufficient charge to reach your next stop is attained.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Nonetheless, your stance is that the level of effort and inconvenience you potentially impose upon others for your own benefit is within your arbitrary range of acceptability.

So your stance is that I should be inconvenienced for several hours and 100% of the time, so you don't' have to be inconvenienced for 5 minutes and in extremely unlikely occurrences.

I prefer others not decide such for me.

 

[Bet TSLA]

There is no notification of the SC stalls being busy, let alone busy with cars waiting.

I expect this situation to change with 8.0 or maybe 8.1. The whole supercharging process (the human part) has to get better before Model 3 becomes the majority of Teslas out there. So it will.

 

[Topher]

Way back in the day there was an analogous problem with wandering cows. If your cow wandered on to a neighbors field, that was an inconvenience to them. The two obvious solutions were 1) return the cow to you (and perhaps cuss you out) 2) Do something drastic to the cow (eat it). The first put all the costs (though small) on the injured party, the second put all the costs (disproportionately large) on the transgressor. A third method was found. A cattle pound was constructed where wayward cows could be placed for their owners to come get them. This put a cost on both parties, and perhaps motivated some fence fixing effort.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

I think the discussion about the proper care and feeding of our unicorns has actually been helpful.

Because once upon a time unicorns were extremely rare, and in most places non existent. However, they were fearful about food sources and would never venture far from their safe places. Then one day the God of unicorns said that he was putting unicorn food out between the safe places and that his even his littlest unicorns could move from one safe place to another and share the unicorn story.

The first unicorns ventured out and felt scarred and excited at the same time. Everyone looked at them. Most smiled and gave thumbs up, but others snarled. It was always a relief to get to the unicorn food lot. They were nice places and you could eat all you wanted. But still the first unicorns were sad, because they were the only ones there enjoying the free food.

Years later, with a free food supply, unicorn babies started to pop up, and boy did they pop up. Soon the free unicorn lots were over run with old, middle aged, and young unicorns. Fights broke out between the unicorns, it was not a happy time.

The unicorn God, who once was loving and all giving became quite angry. He told the unicorns thst each of their beautiful horns told him where they were and if they ate to much, or didn't make room for the other unicorns. He said if the unicorns could not figure out how to share by themselves that he would soon start moving the unicorns around by the horns, and if he did, that he may even want some unicorn dust as payment.

The unicorns were scared. The unicorn God had never been angry like this before. So the unicorns promised to work together and not fight over unicorn food again.

Yeah, I'd pretty call that a fairytale. So is it going to be a Cinderella story, or Grimm's?

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

I think this thread should make a left turn into if Topher"s analogy is better then mine or not.

 

[scaesare]

So your stance is that I should be inconvenienced for several hours and 100% of the time, so you don't' have to be inconvenienced for 5 minutes and in extremely unlikely occurrence

For your benefit?

Sure.

 

[Off Shore]

I haven't yet taken any real long trips, so I've only used a non-busy SC a couple times..............couple questions for all of you who obviously are familiar with SCs. When using the Tesla GPS and heading toward a SC, does it have any way of telling you if the SC is either busy or even non-functioning? If you are supposed to have a long charge (say 40 or 50 minutes), and you are at a SC that is pretty busy with people stacked up waiting, do you leave a note on your car while charging if you leave you vehicle to go to get coffee or to the restroom? Thanks

Superchargers that are down are so indicated on the navigation map, unless the icon is replaced with a cheery finish line flag [feel free to guess how I know].

Other topic: Can we grant HLR a blanket amnesty for past SC-related activities? I realize this is a low-SNR thread in any case, but it's getting toxic.

 

[4SUPER9]

Nonetheless, your stance is that the level of effort and inconvenience you potentially impose upon others for your own benefit is within your arbitrary range of acceptability.

Arbitrary? Hardly. It was a rational decision based on the environment. That is the opposite of arbitrary. I think the point was that there was zero chance of him inconveniencing anybody. More importantly, he did not. Isn't that worth something? Hank, stop trying to use the rational that you would be able to move your car in 5 minutes. If there was the slightest chance at all that you would have had to move your car, my guess is that you would not had left your car there. Geez people. Come on! Any rational person would have done the same in Hank's scenario. Any person with proper etiquette, this includes Hank, would not do so if there was ANY chance of inconveniencing others. The chances of this happening again is small. Given what we expect in the future, such opportunities will likely never occur.

 

[Rocky_H]

It ain't fantasy here in reality-land, and it ain't fantasy at places like Glenwood Springs, CO where you have a combination of ICEing by ICEs and ICEing by our own.

Have you seen the movie "The Deer Hunter", with Robert DeNiro and Christopher Walken? There is this great quote in the movie. DeNiro's character is trying to get someone to focus on the practical, the important, the here-and-now. He says:
"See this? This is this. This ain't something else. This is this."

So "this" is Santee South Carolina. This isn't Glenwood Springs Colorado or any other hypothetical place with different circumstances you want to bring up. This was a very empty, unused Supercharger location that had no chance of filling up.

And your deliberate use of Teo versus Tao is pretty comical. Gotta love low signal to noise.

And no, that wasn't deliberate. I misread your username, so I misspelled it. But you used that excuse to make a cheap shot insult. That says something.

 

[scaesare]

Arbitrary? Hardly. It was a rational decision based on the environment. That is the opposite of arbitrary.

He's stated he's ok with having to have people attempt to find his note somewhere on the car, their having to call him, and then waiting some time for him to come move the car.

He estimates this takes 5 minutes. I suspect that's best case unless he never showers, uses the bathroom, or eats. That's also his response time on top of what time it takes the person who pulls in to the lot in the middle of the night and sees all the stalls taken, and decides to park, get out, inspect each car, and then make the call. Heck, I bet many people would see the stalls occupied and park nearby and wait. Or assume they were out of luck and check in...

Nonetheless, why 5 mins and not 3? Is 10 ok? How about 15?

He has guesstimated 5 mins, and decided "that shall be sufficient" based on his opinion.

That's the very definition of arbitrary, no?

 

[TaoJones]

Have you seen the movie "The Deer Hunter", with Robert DeNiro and Christopher Walken? There is this great quote in the movie. DeNiro's character is trying to get someone to focus on the practical, the important, the here-and-now. He says:
"See this? This is this. This ain't something else. This is this."

So "this" is Santee South Carolina. This isn't Glenwood Springs Colorado or any other hypothetical place with different circumstances you want to bring up. This was a very empty, unused Supercharger location that had no chance of filling up.

Forest. Trees. Focusing upon the tree rather than the forest seems to be a penchant of yours. A recurring theme and a frankly myopic one at that.

And no, that wasn't deliberate. I misread your username, so I misspelled it. But you used that excuse to make a cheap shot insult. That says something.

About that myopia, yeah...

You've read and responded to enough of my posts in more than one forum by now that making *that* excuse is, well, pretty funny actually.

It remains indisputable that the risk of inconveniencing someone is elevated by using charging spaces as parking spaces. It is also indisputable as I referenced in my first response that for the majority of SCs on this continent, freeloading in a space overnight will probably not be a problem for years to come. One of the points in favor of not freeloading in a charging space and in support of existing laws on the books (see Washington's $125 fine for parking and/or not charging in a charging space) is that you cannot know what SC is going to get impacted when. You wouldn't think that there would be a wait at Lusk, Wyoming or Cheyenne, Wyoming twice a year either, but there now has been for 2 years in a row. And one of those chargers is at a motel.

In the end, the best practice of exiting the charging space immediately when the charge is complete stands. Not 10 minutes later, and not 10 hours later. Tesla's own app now supports this with the 5-minute nag. State law now supports this as well in some places.

Finally, I've been to the Santee SC. It's busier than you'd think. But that's not the point. The point is the forest and the future. Not a tree and the present. As much as you may also want to quote Dustin Hoffman from Wag the Dog. "This is nothing. Nothing!" And look what happened to him .

 

[TaoJones]

Superchargers that are down are so indicated on the navigation map, unless the icon is replaced with a cheery finish line flag [feel free to guess how I know].

Other topic: Can we grant HLR a blanket amnesty for past SC-related activities? I realize this is a low-SNR thread in any case, but it's getting toxic.

No. He should know better.

And the island of Ometepe is indeed a wonderful place. Didn't realize they had internet access there .

 

[Rocky_H]

About that myopia, yeah...

You've read and responded to enough of my posts in more than one forum by now that making *that* excuse is, well, pretty funny actually.

You click reply, and you type an answer. I've never had to type your username before, so I didn't notice I had that letter wrong before--sorry. I'm not lying, so will you knock off the offended conspiracy stuff? I'll leave the rest of it alone, since it's not getting anywhere. Tree.

 

[Off Shore]

And the island of Ometepe is indeed a wonderful place. Didn't realize they had internet access there .

For the past ten years. I'm on the other island at the moment, the one with the Tesla.

 

[4SUPER9]

He's stated he's ok with having to have people attempt to find his note somewhere on the car, their having to call him, and then waiting some time for him to come move the car.

Yes, he said that, but he also showed that he only did so because the need for this was an unlikely and ridiculous/shocking scenario. No one would have to wait 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 30 minutes, or even two seconds, because IT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. He left a note for his number anyway, because he is a fanatic defender of the EV community. Kudos to him.

Suppose for a moment that he wasn't at a hotel and needed a range charge and decided to have dinner. Is it reasonable only then to leave a note on his car? If his car is done charging, what time frame is reasonable to come back? I think within a few minutes. Or, perhaps you want him right there, with his hand on the handle ready to disconnect the exact second his charge is complete.

 

[Electroman]

scaesare: you need to stop your hyperbole. Every situation demands a rational response entirely dependent on the circumstances. You can come up with all kinds of crazy scenarios - all slots filled up and overflowing and Hank is in the shower. Of course you could thrown in zombies chasing too..

 

[ohmman]

You know what would have kept this from happening, @TaoJones? A time based pay-per-use scheme for Supercharging!

Sorry, couldn't resist.