Supercharging Etiquette (or a complete lack thereof)

[aesculus]

I am sure this has been discussed many times before but since I experienced it again yesterday, it bears repeating. Saw many instances of this at Dublin, CA yesterday and even witnessed one potential altercation.

When you arrive at a busy supercharger take note of who is waiting. When cars pull out of a stall it's the first car that was there's stall, not the closest cars stall. They know who they are and you should at least know it's one of the cars that was there when you pulled up. It's definitely not yours.

And no, this is not the 1960's bank teller lines where you pull in behind a stall and wait for that one to be free. Its FIFO. Not LIFO. Not RIFO.

Be aware and be courteous.

 

[CuriousG]

This happened a few months back:

Rage at a Supercharger Station

 

[Rocky_H]

Well, that was entertaining watching the argument between Hank and Teo, where Hank was talking about all the stalls being empty (the reality) and Teo was talking about all the stalls being full (the fantasy). In other news, @Az_Rael if you don't like the J1772 plugs being unhooked from your car, why don't you use a small padlock? Almost all brands of J1772 handles have a little loop in the release button to be locked so they cannot be unhooked.

 

[TaoJones]

Well, that was entertaining watching the argument between Hank and Teo, where Hank was talking about all the stalls being empty (the reality) and Teo was talking about all the stalls being full (the fantasy). In other news, @Az_Rael if you don't like the J1772 plugs being unhooked from your car, why don't you use a small padlock? Almost all brands of J1772 handles have a little loop in the release button to be locked so they cannot be unhooked.

It ain't fantasy here in reality-land, and it ain't fantasy at places like Glenwood Springs, CO where you have a combination of ICEing by ICEs and ICEing by our own.

But again, it comes down to best practice versus the increased risk of inconveniencing people.

Funny thing about low probability events - the more SCs you visit, the more you see. Using the counterpoint camp's logic, it's ok to ICE a space anytime. And it's not. The 18-wheeler that pulled in that didn't know a SC from a box of rocks is no different in terms of impact than Hank's example - well-intentioned or inconsiderate or otherwise. Doesn't matter.

And your deliberate use of Teo versus Tao is pretty comical. Gotta love low signal to noise.

In time, legislation will weed out the inconsiderate. EV spaces will be striped in green, and will be subject to ticketing and towing just as blue spaces and red spaces are today.

And that will be that.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

In time, legislation will weed out the inconsiderate. EV spaces will be striped in green, and will be subject to ticketing and towing just as blue spaces and red spaces are today.

Probably. But hopefully, technology will preclude, if not lessen legislation. Soon, our level 4 autonomous cars will move our cars around the SC in the most efficient manner. And I hope there will be towing robot to automagiclly remove pesky ICE cars.

Then, that will be that.

 

[Off Shore]

The new layout they're playing with--lanes rather than stalls--will also change the dynamic.

 

[Garlan Garner]

The new layout they're playing with--lanes rather than stalls--will also change the dynamic.

Indeed it will. AND with the new battery upgrade people might be leap frogging SC's now. That will help to eliminate congestion. As I said folks......just hold on a little while longer. There are many ways to remedy SC congestion.

 

[4SUPER9]

The 18-wheeler that pulled in that didn't know a SC from a box of rocks is no different in terms of impact than Hank's example

Huh? I don't get it. Your sentiment is that someone who blocked an entire row supercharger stalls is the same as someone who carefully assessed a situation, took only 1 of 8 empty spaces, knowing that he could not conceivably inconvenience a single soul? Or did I misunderstand?

 

[HankLloydRight]

Using the counterpoint camp's logic, it's ok to ICE a space anytime.

Um, no, I never said that, nor anything remotely close to that.

And you accuse *me* of not listening to the "other side's argument"?

 

[chris5639]

A bystander cutting power is probably not the reason for this behavior - because a) you can not remove the cable, and b) as soon as you release the button, the car starts charging again.

Could it be that the current Tesla charging cable behavior is intentional for a different reason:
The thought may be to allow the present driver to establish priority over the absent driver.
The present driver does not know how long the absent driver intends to park/charge ... maybe they will not return for a long time, while the present driver is here now and need the faster charge because she intends to leave soon.

Nah, I am probably imagining a plausible but unlikely design rationale.

The bug (in peudo code probably looks something like this)

OnButtonPress()
{
StopCharging();
If (car.locked == false)
UnlatchChargingPlug();
}

it should be

OnButtonPress()
{

If (car.locked == false)
{
StopCharging();
UnlatchChargingPlug();
}
}

The StopCharging command is separate from the unlatch so that an electric arc would not be introduced. I know that there are smaller data ports alongside the power ports in these plugs and they are designed to disengage the flow of current in the midst of unplugging but it doesn't hurt to trigger the same logic upon button press.

Because the stop charging command was issued without regard to the car's lock state, it will resume charging upon another routine that checks for plugged in status. However, that off then on state toggling was enough to put the said car into 2nd priority at the stall.

 

[scaesare]

Simple... if I'm staying overnight and I need a full range charge the next day, it's very bad for the longevity of the battery to do that the night before and leave it fully charged overnight. It can also take 30 to 60 minutes for a 100% range charge to actually complete. So when I pull in, I'll set the car to charge to 80% or 90%, and then when I wake up, immediately set it to charge to 100%.. so by the time I get out there an hour later, the car is 100% charged, the battery pack warmed up and the cabin pre-conditioned. Of course, if there's a problem and someone needs to call me, I'd move it right away. But both times I pulled into Santee, SC after midnight and left before 9am, I really didn't think there was going to be an onslaught of six other cars pulling in to charge at the exact same time. And even if there was, I was easily reachable.



It wasn't to keep an eye on the car, it was to monitor if there was any congestion or problem at the SC and act appropriately.



If they do, I'm easily reachable and close by.

Having read the subsequent back and forth about this, I still believe this is unfortunate behavior and viewpoint.

The stalls are for charging. And to enable long distance travel (which often requires fast turnaround). And they are a limited resource within a fast ever-growing user base.

As such, the decision to use the stalls in a manner in which they aren't intended for your convenience infers that your value judgment is that you risk (despite whatever probabilities you assign to such) inconveniencing others by using those resources in a way not intended, in order to make your life easier.

This way you don't have to leave your hotel room, and perhaps worse, risk not having a stall open in the morning when you would appreciate topping off.

I believe if you need the exception in usage (i.e.-charge, wait several hours, then top off), then you should incur the trouble, and accept the risk of there not being a stall in the morning.

I appreciate you made your personal estimate of the likelihood of their being conflict, but quite frankly that's not your call to make, is it?

As noted by some others, this is the same reason why it's not cool to:

- Park in one of 4 empty handicapped spaces to run in the store "for 2 minutes"
- Park in a fire lane for a moment while I run in and grab my coat
- Stay plugged in to one of an empty bank of L2 chargers knowing I only need it for 60 minutes in the morning to top off
- etc...

In short: If you need the exception, you make the effort. Not the other way around.

 

[scaesare]

A bit off the rant topic being discussed here but can you actually do a delayed charge at a supercharger?

I think the only practical way is to move the charge set point to something low initially (say 50%), and then when you are later ready to finish charging move it back up to your desired point (i.e. 90%) via the remote app.

 

[scaesare]

I think the only practical way is to move the charge set point to something low initially (say 50%), and then when you are later ready to finish charging move it back up to your desired point (i.e. 90%) via the remote app.

A dislike for providing what I believe to be a factually correct answer to a technical question.

Awesome!

 

[HankLloydRight]

As such, the decision to use the stalls in a manner in which they aren't intended for your convenience infers that your value judgment is that you risk (despite whatever probabilities you assign to such) inconveniencing others by using those resources in a way not intended, in order to make your life easier.

This is the problem, everyone thinks I'm saying I would park in a stall all night for my convenience, and screw everyone else. I've said this a dozen times already that is *never* the case or intention.

It's not a binary decision (occupy stall or not occupy stall). It's a simple matter of calling me to move my car and waiting a couple of minutes so someone else can charge. That's it. I would never deny anyone to charge when they need to. My direct contact phone number is always clear and available, and I would always be close by to move my car within *minutes*.

Everyone is quick to immediately go to the extremes, ASSUME the worst, and lose the actual details of the argument.

Whenever it comes to decisions like this, I always put myself in the opposite situation. If *I* arrived at a full SC, and had to call someone to move their car and wait a few minutes, I would consider that very considerate of the owner of that car, and appreciate that they are willing to leave their contact information and move their car at any hour. The maximum that I would be "inconvenienced" would be a few minutes. That is infinitely better than most everyone else who ICEs a spot with an EV or not, but doesn't leave any contact info whatsoever.

You guys are all hating on my because you *might* have to wait 5 minutes to charge your car?

My word, have you checked your privilege lately?

 

[HankLloydRight]

- Park in one of 4 empty handicapped spaces to run in the store "for 2 minutes"
- Park in a fire lane for a moment while I run in and grab my coat

Those are illegal actions.

 

[scaesare]

Those are illegal actions.

And uncool when people do them nonetheless.

 

[scaesare]

This is the problem, everyone thinks I'm saying I would park in a stall all night for my convenience, and screw everyone else. I've said this a dozen times already that is *never* the case or intention.

It's not a binary decision (occupy stall or not occupy stall). It's a simple matter of calling me to move my car and waiting a couple of minutes so someone else can charge. That's it. I would never deny anyone to charge when they need to. My direct contact phone number is always clear and available, and I would always be close by to move my car within *minutes*.

Everyone is quick to immediately go to the extremes, ASSUME the worst, and lose the actual details of the argument.

Whenever it comes to decisions like this, I always put myself in the opposite situation. If *I* arrived at a full SC, and had to call someone to move their car and wait a few minutes, I would consider that very considerate of the owner of that car, and appreciate that they are willing to leave their contact information and move their car at any hour. The maximum that I would be "inconvenienced" would be a few minutes. That is infinitely better than most everyone else who ICEs a spot with an EV or not, but doesn't leave any contact info whatsoever.

You guys are all hating on my because you *might* have to wait 5 minutes to charge your car?

Yup, yup.

-If you hear your phone
-And you aren't in the shower
-Or have fallen asleep
-Or the person pulling up ran out of juice for their phone
-And they've taken the time to look around your vehicle and find your note at 3am
-...

Then, best case, you still opted to inconvenience them for 5 minutes. But, if they didn't realize in the dark at 3 am there was a phone # on the car until sometime later, or they had to wait for their phone to charge, or it was after you got out of the shower... then it could easily be 15 minutes. Or 30. Or not until you wake up in the morning.

So for you there's an acceptable range of how much time people should wait on you so you don't have to be inconvenienced yourself.

Got it.

My word, have you checked your privilege lately?

Very odd parting comment for somebody taking the stance you are.

 

[ldgrmnmc]

I haven't yet taken any real long trips, so I've only used a non-busy SC a couple times..............couple questions for all of you who obviously are familiar with SCs. When using the Tesla GPS and heading toward a SC, does it have any way of telling you if the SC is either busy or even non-functioning? If you are supposed to have a long charge (say 40 or 50 minutes), and you are at a SC that is pretty busy with people stacked up waiting, do you leave a note on your car while charging if you leave you vehicle to go to get coffee or to the restroom? Thanks

 

[scaesare]

I haven't yet taken any real long trips, so I've only used a non-busy SC a couple times..............couple questions for all of you who obviously are familiar with SCs. When using the Tesla GPS and heading toward a SC, does it have any way of telling you if the SC is either busy or even non-functioning? If you are supposed to have a long charge (say 40 or 50 minutes), and you are at a SC that is pretty busy with people stacked up waiting, do you leave a note on your car while charging if you leave you vehicle to go to get coffee or to the restroom? Thanks

Unfortunately there is no realtime notification of charger usage/availability.

I only leave my car in a SC stall while actually charging, so don't leave a note.

I have seen some folks discuss leaving a note once they have sufficient range, and are continuing to charge for extra buffer offering to move if somebody else needs the stall, which seems a good idea.

 

[4SUPER9]

Ugh, come on everyone. Is this argument really necessary? I get everyone's point. In fact, both sides are correct. However, let's all be realistic. Hank clearly follows the rules, yet used common sense (as he clearly has some) and made a clear rational choice. If I was to walk into a hotel room at midnight, utterly exhausted, with 6" of snow on the ground, and see that there are 8/8 stalls available, with no one else on the road, in an area that (to date) never fills up. I would probably have done the same thing. I would still have been nervous about it, but would have done it. Just put yourself in that situation. Just imagine it for a second: "Hey honey, there are 8 stalls available at it is the middle of the night and snowing hard. There are no cars on the road. We can plug in, leave our number in the infinitesimal chance 8 other cars show up in the next few hours, or we can sit here with the car and wait and move the car at 1am, only to get up at 6am to drive to our next destination." To which your wife says: "Oh, baby. Don't be silly. You MUST stay with the car. Just come to bed at 1am, wake me up, and let's all have a miserable day tomorrow. It is the only right thing to do."
Yeah, right.