Maybe that's breach of contract at best, fraud at worst.
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Supercharging promised but not delivered
- Thread starter NiallDarwin
- Start date
Maybe that's breach of contract at best, fraud at worst.
You cannot just change your mind after offering a written commitment. This guy bought he car because of that promise, if Tesla change their mind, then they should buy the car off the OP for the same price he paid for it.
This is very different than my experience with Tesla service a year ago when I got my car. I had a defect (cracked a pillar) and Tesla was diligent and fair in helping me out, eventually leading to a brand new rebuild. It was party due to this experience (and the great model s) that I convinced my dad and sister to get their own Tesla. I hope Tesla didn’t change their attitude on creating advocates through fair and effective service.
This is very different than my experience with Tesla service a year ago when I got my car. I had a defect (cracked a pillar) and Tesla was diligent and fair in helping me out, eventually leading to a brand new rebuild. It was party due to this experience (and the great model s) that I convinced my dad and sister to get their own Tesla. I hope Tesla didn’t change their attitude on creating advocates through fair and effective service.
Wait... you don't even get CHadeMO charging?! That's definitely not right. If your car is capable of DC fast charging, that should be enabled. They have no right to block CHadeMO, it isn't even their network...
First of all, I am astounded at the low fees they charged you. Stateside it's $1,600 body shop if no repairs are required, then $1,400 for SC if no repairs are required.
Second, I've known for a while that on recert you don't get supercharging, they turn off your car's cell account, and disable app access. All you get is (paid) service and (paid) parts for recert.
If we can all agree that wrecked cars are going to be rebuilt, then what should Tesla's policy be? I should think they'd want to protect their reputation and ensure the safety of their customers.
So. Do. They. Charge High fees and take away all benefits that were paid for on purchase of the car? Well that just forces those of us with Rebuilt cars to drive around with NO inspections, except those done by the State Patrol, which are only checking that we did not use stolen parts. {hehe}
So clearly their goal is NOT to protect their reputation and ensure the safety of their customers. What is the goal then? Make money?
Don't fight it man. Hack your car, or pay somebody to do it and monitor you all the time.
Second, I've known for a while that on recert you don't get supercharging, they turn off your car's cell account, and disable app access. All you get is (paid) service and (paid) parts for recert.
If we can all agree that wrecked cars are going to be rebuilt, then what should Tesla's policy be? I should think they'd want to protect their reputation and ensure the safety of their customers.
So. Do. They. Charge High fees and take away all benefits that were paid for on purchase of the car? Well that just forces those of us with Rebuilt cars to drive around with NO inspections, except those done by the State Patrol, which are only checking that we did not use stolen parts. {hehe}
So clearly their goal is NOT to protect their reputation and ensure the safety of their customers. What is the goal then? Make money?
Don't fight it man. Hack your car, or pay somebody to do it and monitor you all the time.
Thanks for this, very informative.
The only thing that makes any sense to me is that Tesla wants to maintain a monopoly on parts and service, as well as to discourage people from rebuilding Teslas (presumably to encourage more “new car” sales).
Nothing else adds up or makes any sense. ...and such a strategy, ignoring the fact that it is highly anticompetitive, is incredibly stupid long term. I just don’t get it! It means more Teslas will go to the crusher, repair costs and times will skyrocket, insurance rates will go up, etc. it’s a death sentence for the company long term! If they have a strategy to deal with this I’d love to know what it is...
Tesla's stance on self repair and rebuilt cars is just poor and ridiculous. The argument that they want to sell new cars doesn't justify this monopoly behavior. It is absolutely BS that you can't even replace your own seat because it needs to be programmed into the computer and Tesla doesn't allow anyone to have the software to do that.
It is a ridiculous trend that companies sell you a product but then act like it is still their property and they have the right to remotely reach into your car and disable things as they like. This is exactly where government should step in and pass lows that protect consumers, the people, from companies like that. Unfortunately this won't happen here in the US.
The car was sold with unlimited Supercharging for the life of the car.
It is a ridiculous trend that companies sell you a product but then act like it is still their property and they have the right to remotely reach into your car and disable things as they like. This is exactly where government should step in and pass lows that protect consumers, the people, from companies like that. Unfortunately this won't happen here in the US.
The car was sold with unlimited Supercharging for the life of the car.
Just wait until Apple stops software updates or disables Find my iPhone because you cracked your screen and had a third party replace it for you.
Wow, looks like I touched a nerve here!
First, I only see one direst question and that's from demunds:
@rooter: If I had an old, high mileage car I'd go your way in flash. But this car has a very high value on my relative scale and I feel that official support is imperative to maintaining that value.
Next, an update.
I got contacted by someone who had seen this thread and claimed to 'have influence' with Tesla but didn't work for
Tesla. They asked to be kept anonymous and I am respecting that. I will say that they are a prolific poster on this site. They said they believed Tesla AU/NZ were inexperienced and had done the wrong thing. They said they'd get Tesla HQ to make something happen.
Sure enough an email came through from 'Tesla Executive Support' saying that the first thing they needed to do was get the car registered to me in their system*. That's currently in process. No promises have been made by Tesla but I'm hopeful. I have a contact at Tesla who has given me a date by which I can expect action &/or an update. Basically, I am being treated professionally which is what I expected from the start.
I'll let you all know when I know more.
*Seems obvious but at no point did Tesla AU/NZ mention this. Also, I tried a long while ago but because the car wasn't registered anywhere and they wouldn't accept a bill of sale from the insurance company it stalled.
First, I only see one direst question and that's from demunds:
In an email from the Sydney 'Dealsership'. Also, no support has been resumed regardless of charging status.
@rooter: If I had an old, high mileage car I'd go your way in flash. But this car has a very high value on my relative scale and I feel that official support is imperative to maintaining that value.
Next, an update.
I got contacted by someone who had seen this thread and claimed to 'have influence' with Tesla but didn't work for
Tesla. They asked to be kept anonymous and I am respecting that. I will say that they are a prolific poster on this site. They said they believed Tesla AU/NZ were inexperienced and had done the wrong thing. They said they'd get Tesla HQ to make something happen.
Sure enough an email came through from 'Tesla Executive Support' saying that the first thing they needed to do was get the car registered to me in their system*. That's currently in process. No promises have been made by Tesla but I'm hopeful. I have a contact at Tesla who has given me a date by which I can expect action &/or an update. Basically, I am being treated professionally which is what I expected from the start.
I'll let you all know when I know more.
*Seems obvious but at no point did Tesla AU/NZ mention this. Also, I tried a long while ago but because the car wasn't registered anywhere and they wouldn't accept a bill of sale from the insurance company it stalled.
Update: CHadeMO enabled, no Supercharging nor Support, Fishy Business and Thanks
Wow, its been a month since the last update already. Here's what's been happening in Middle Earth:
CHadeMO / DC Charging Enabled
My contact at Tesla Executive Support (for simplicity I'm going to call it TES) has been keeping me up to date with progress roughly weekly. It appears as though TES wants Tesla AU/NZ (TANZ for now) to keep their promises and support the car. TANZ don't want to and by the sounds of it were pushing back hard against TES.
Roughly two weeks ago I got a call from TES telling me that they didn't think that they could do anything for me. I spent the next day breaking stuff, swearing, writing rude messages about Tesla in the dirt on the rear of my car and generally being an angry human. The day after that I got a call from TES saying that they had persuaded/ordered TANZ to enable DC charging (essentially CHadeMO) and maps on my car. I queried whether this was a 'final' deal. TES said no, its an interim thing while they continue to negotiate with TANZ to give the full support promised to my car. So last Thursday, while my car was connected to WiFi at home the DC charging got enabled. Woo-hoo, awesome and fantastic!!!
No Supercharging nor Support
I have thanked TES for their help so far. I have also asked for a routemap to resolving the open issue of supercharging and 'support', as promised months ago. I have had no response to this.
Fishy Business
I got contacted by a person who wanted advice on doing essentially the same thing as I've just suffered through, buying a car at an Australian salvage auction, fixing it and bringing it to NZ. Obviously I said, 'only if you want grey hairs'! He also said that he'd found three available which were due to be auctioned imminently. Mysteriously they disappeared from the auction house's listings around the time I got my CHadeMO enabled. Given that I have been told by TANZ that I'm the first in to go through any of this procedure and given that TANZ management seem so thoroughly opposed to people like me doing what I've done I'm wondering if they've bought the wrecks to crush? I know I'm taking 1 and 1 and making 11 here but I really have no confidence in Tesla Australia New Zealand's commitment to support. I truly hope its an entirely innocent and unrelated reason.
Thanks to:
The efforts of TES in helping me through this.
The TANZ technicians who get on and do their job despite bad management.
Finally and most highly the anonymous forum user who flagged my case to TES. You got this rolling, I really appreciate it.
Its not over yet...
Wow, its been a month since the last update already. Here's what's been happening in Middle Earth:
CHadeMO / DC Charging Enabled
My contact at Tesla Executive Support (for simplicity I'm going to call it TES) has been keeping me up to date with progress roughly weekly. It appears as though TES wants Tesla AU/NZ (TANZ for now) to keep their promises and support the car. TANZ don't want to and by the sounds of it were pushing back hard against TES.
Roughly two weeks ago I got a call from TES telling me that they didn't think that they could do anything for me. I spent the next day breaking stuff, swearing, writing rude messages about Tesla in the dirt on the rear of my car and generally being an angry human. The day after that I got a call from TES saying that they had persuaded/ordered TANZ to enable DC charging (essentially CHadeMO) and maps on my car. I queried whether this was a 'final' deal. TES said no, its an interim thing while they continue to negotiate with TANZ to give the full support promised to my car. So last Thursday, while my car was connected to WiFi at home the DC charging got enabled. Woo-hoo, awesome and fantastic!!!
No Supercharging nor Support
I have thanked TES for their help so far. I have also asked for a routemap to resolving the open issue of supercharging and 'support', as promised months ago. I have had no response to this.
Fishy Business
I got contacted by a person who wanted advice on doing essentially the same thing as I've just suffered through, buying a car at an Australian salvage auction, fixing it and bringing it to NZ. Obviously I said, 'only if you want grey hairs'! He also said that he'd found three available which were due to be auctioned imminently. Mysteriously they disappeared from the auction house's listings around the time I got my CHadeMO enabled. Given that I have been told by TANZ that I'm the first in to go through any of this procedure and given that TANZ management seem so thoroughly opposed to people like me doing what I've done I'm wondering if they've bought the wrecks to crush? I know I'm taking 1 and 1 and making 11 here but I really have no confidence in Tesla Australia New Zealand's commitment to support. I truly hope its an entirely innocent and unrelated reason.
Thanks to:
The efforts of TES in helping me through this.
The TANZ technicians who get on and do their job despite bad management.
Finally and most highly the anonymous forum user who flagged my case to TES. You got this rolling, I really appreciate it.
Its not over yet...
If they’re wasting Tesla’s much needed money buying wrecks out of spite, they’re going to be facing some seriously angry shareholders.
TES have now decided they have done all they can/can be bothered with this case and have handed it back to the local guys. I am left without Supercharging or support and no acknowledgement of the promise made for either of these things. The only ting left to me is court action
Disputes Tribunal
This is for claims up to NZ$15,000 and is very cheap and simple for a mere mortal like me. For larger claims I would have to go to the district court and advice suggests I'd be looking at $20,000 costs minimum. Legal advice tells me I have a solid case regarding the 'breach' but I need data to prove the value of my loss. To help with this, please put your estimate of the effect on the value of car denied Support and Supercharging on my poll here. Please also reach out here or privately if you have data/evidence of these values. Data from 'experts' is valued more highly than 'vox pop' in court according to my friendly lawyer.
Thanks.
Disputes Tribunal
This is for claims up to NZ$15,000 and is very cheap and simple for a mere mortal like me. For larger claims I would have to go to the district court and advice suggests I'd be looking at $20,000 costs minimum. Legal advice tells me I have a solid case regarding the 'breach' but I need data to prove the value of my loss. To help with this, please put your estimate of the effect on the value of car denied Support and Supercharging on my poll here. Please also reach out here or privately if you have data/evidence of these values. Data from 'experts' is valued more highly than 'vox pop' in court according to my friendly lawyer.
Thanks.
OK, so I've gone and filed papers. I'm sad to be doing this but I feel I have no choice. Here's my pre-fight trash talk! It'll be about a month before the match so maybe don't hold your breath for the next update.
A national NZ newscrew did a piece on this story. This went out on national TV news at 6 today:
Waikato man suing Tesla over lack of promised support
The reporter in doing his background and asking Tesla for comment got something very interesting. No, they didn't explain why the managers are still ignoring the results of their Technician's inspection and are refusing support on this vehicle. What Tesla said is that they had found 'a way to close the loophole of salvage cars getting back on the road in NZ'. Given that there's nothing at all illegal or shady about bringing cars back to life and that Tesla doesn't control the NZ transport authorities the conclusion I draw is that Tesla have agreed some kind of buyback of wrecks from the insurance companies.
Sounds like GM crushing their EV1s all over again. Bad business
Waikato man suing Tesla over lack of promised support
The reporter in doing his background and asking Tesla for comment got something very interesting. No, they didn't explain why the managers are still ignoring the results of their Technician's inspection and are refusing support on this vehicle. What Tesla said is that they had found 'a way to close the loophole of salvage cars getting back on the road in NZ'. Given that there's nothing at all illegal or shady about bringing cars back to life and that Tesla doesn't control the NZ transport authorities the conclusion I draw is that Tesla have agreed some kind of buyback of wrecks from the insurance companies.
Sounds like GM crushing their EV1s all over again. Bad business
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Now 'The Guardian' has picked this story up:
Tesla sued over claims it ran man's dream car project off the road
Please Tesla, all I want is for you to honour (British spelling) your written promises to me or negotiate an alternative arrangement.
I don't want you in court but I have no other way of holding you to task.
Tesla sued over claims it ran man's dream car project off the road
Please Tesla, all I want is for you to honour (British spelling) your written promises to me or negotiate an alternative arrangement.
I don't want you in court but I have no other way of holding you to task.
Well done getting picked up by the press. Hopefully the exposure helps tesla do the right thing!
Whatever you buy, you expect the contract to be honoured. That's what this is about.
What contract do you have with Tesla? You have none. You are a third party purchaser. The "contract" for supercharging was between Tesla and the original purchaser of the car, said car being sold to the original purchaser (owner) in a country different from where you are located. Once the car was declared salvage, Tesla's policy is and has always been that there is no more access to the supercharger network.
Further, I don't know what the terms of the original sale were in the original country, but when I bought my car in the US, the terms (which most people never read) stated that taking the car outside of the US voids all warranties and support from Tesla. I would not be surprised if similar language went with the terms of the sale of the car to the original owner in the other country.
Swegman, as stated in the Original Post:
One written promise of Supercharging and one written promise of support. If that's not a contract I don't know what is. Or if they typed it but had their fingers crossed does it not count?
One written promise of Supercharging and one written promise of support. If that's not a contract I don't know what is. Or if they typed it but had their fingers crossed does it not count?
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