Supercharging rate option

[bxr140]

I'm not going to walk 2 minutes from restaurant in the middle of a meal to move my car, which finished 80% charge after 18 minutes of charging. I want to eat for 20 more minutes. The end. I'm not going to move my car.

Exactly. So you want a system that allows you to **** over everyone behind you for 20 minutes due to your laziness and lack of moral standard, and you don’t want it to cost you a dime. Brilliant.

You want tesla to facilitate the equivalent of the ICE driver that leaves his car at a busy pump while he goes in the store for some shopping and a bathroom break.

Convenience - it was promised.

Congratulations, you’ve masterfully conflated convenience with entitlement, and have duped a few others into thinking it’s a good idea.

 

[Missile Toad]

I think the truest measure of whether the idea serves the community or adversely affects it is to do some modeling, and determine if the Supercharger site can be made to operate under the Arnis plan without more than 1-2% reduction in overall kW output during busy times.

 

[arnis]

I like the idea of visual feedback of charging process. Tiny chargeport flashing is not helpful for others.
I think that Tesla navigation should find the best spot, but why not show with vehicles themselves.
I would consider REDUCED vehicles and STANDARD but charging slow due to tapering (charging
speed between 0.0kW (not charging any more) up to 30kW (near full)) in the same group.
I would consider them both as orange on the navigation bar graph.
Flashing idea should be analyzed further. Maybe flash only best 1-3 stallpairs. And flashing should be
a thing only when SC location is very crowded. If there are some stallpairs that are unoccupied,
there is no need for additional visual feedback. And flashing should be happening from both sides of
"sweet" stalls. So both Teslas around that stall that is the best (per one row of vehicles).
Why both sides: I think it is not easy to understand which bay is paired to what charger.
For those who worry: Tesla can disable all cabin indications (display, sound) of blinker flashing.
Visually, blinkers should be seen as the bay being marked is unoccupied.

In case bay on first picture is occupied, the second pair of vehicles mark the bay further away. As it is
the best bay at that moment. This should take literally a moment after best bay car plugs in.
Any vehicle that chose "REDUCED" at busy SC pretty much guarantees unoccupied paired stall next to it is the best one (for current SC's that have usually 2 stalls per charger).

So you want a system that allows you to *

No. Protocol used today allows that. My idea solves some complications that arise due to KISS design.
Software can't add more stalls. More stalls per charger will help. We don't need expensive chargers.
We need the best SC experience and throughput for what we have today.

My proposal shall be only software based. Applicable to all Teslas. Possibly to all future SC-ready vehicles.

Modeling would be awesome. This would tell us, what is the optimal "REDUCED" speed at busy SC in case paired stall is unoccupied and there is a danger of running out of sweet stalls.

 

[Alphacrux]

It does seem overly complicated. Owners should be encouraged to charge quickly and then move their vehicle. I don’t consider it a problem to take a couple of minutes to move a vehicle, especially since we can check remotely.

Tesla should take more aggressive steps to keep owners from abusing the system, that is, locals who could easily charge at home but use the local supercharger (eg, the San Diego supercharger always seems full when I visit there, I’m guessing but can’t prove locals..). I understand this could cause a problem for apartment dwellers, but I don’t have a solution for this.

 

[arnis]

Owners should be encouraged to charge quickly and then move their vehicle

Owners are not charging the vehicle. It's not an ICE vehicle where you stand next to the pump (or sit in the seat) while it pumps.
Also there is nothing one can do to charge faster if charger is not able to supply more juice. So owner has nothing to do with "charge faster".
ALSO there is no reason to leave the spot if you don't hog the charging current nor SC location.
If you choose REDUCED, you will never hog the current. Right now, that is not possible.
And if one charges rapidly for 40 minutes and wants to stay for 60 minutes, those 20 extra minutes are a waste. Compared to when vehicle was in REDUCED rate. Those 40 minutes would allow stallpair vehicle to charge fast. Not possible to do that right now.

There will be no more discussion about "leave ASAP" - because it is not user friendly KISS idea. Far from "premium".

 

[bxr140]

If you choose REDUCED, you will never hog the current.

Except that’s not true. There will be situations—far too many, in fact—where you realize some amount of unpaired, faster charging, so your car is going to finish earlier than you want it to. That means you’ll still have to go move it...or screw over the next person. It’s just that instead of moving your car 40 min into your hour long meal like you do today, you’ll have to move it 50 or 55 min into the hour long meal. And you’re more likely to shrug off 5 or 10 min of charger hogging than 20, so...

Bottom line, the idea is trying to solve an impossible problem. You want tesla to make your convenience more important than someone else’s inconvenience.

There will be no more discussion about "leave ASAP" - because it is not user friendly KISS idea. Far from "premium".

Lol. Thanks for the 45-esque it’s-true-if-I-say-it ism. Unfortunately, Tesla never promised you unlimited convenience at crowded chargers—that you think you’re being slighted is simply something you’ve made up.

Regarding KISS, perhaps you don’t understand the acronym? It means “keep it simple, stupid”. Simple like sticking to one rule. One rule like: Move your car when it’s done charging.

 

[arnis]

Bottom line, the idea is trying to solve an impossible problem.

Well, "impossible" has been proven wrong too many times. Would not recommend to use that word not only when you have no data but even if you do have some data. Example would be "reusable rockets vs everybody".

You want tesla to make your

I don't even have a Tesla. And even if I had, I would not have any VIP badges. So this idea has nothing to do with me. Nor any other specific owner.

Move your car when it’s done charging.

Well, it is done when I say so. One who would choose REDUCED if that was available, would stay there for longer no matter is that button available or not. One who is so "polite" to move the vehicle, would do that anyways, no matter is that REDUCED button available.
This system doesn't solve insufficient stall count. It solves insufficient charging current. Which is a bigger problem. One applies only when there are ALL STALLS occupied. Another applies when more than 50% of stalls are occupied. Notice the difference and probability in real life.

Now be polite to the one who is charging next to you at 20kW. Because you "want to charge faster and move over". Even though you are not in a hurry.

 

[Az_Rael]

Eh, I think idle fees and HPWCs at superchargers are a better solution. Especially superchargers in hotel parking lots.

I think the number of people who would actually choose to slow down their supercharge from the get-go is slim to none. Because folks will worry the car won’t be done when they are done and won’t want to wait.

Now, if they get 3/4 into their meal, and realize the car will be done first, THAT is when they are gonna click the “reduced” button in the app. So, you haven’t helped with overall power distribution much, if at all.

 

[TexasEV]

I don't even have a Tesla..

Enough said.

 

[MacGreiner]

I still don't understand why why most supercharging locations don't have an additional HPWC connection as well. They do this at most combo charging locations for reason that once you hit the major taper point, charging at 120 kw gives you no advantage anyway. Better to free up the stall and pull over to the 30/40A connection and have lunch if you want to go to 100%

 

[gavine]

I still don't understand why why most supercharging locations don't have an additional HPWC connection as well. They do this at most combo charging locations for reason that once you hit the major taper point, charging at 120 kw gives you no advantage anyway. Better to free up the stall and pull over to the 30/40A connection and have lunch if you want to go to 100%

I lobbied for this when I had my Model S60 without Supercharging activated.

 

[arnis]

THAT is when they are gonna click the “reduced” button in the app.

Which doesn't slow down below 60kW usually. So it's too late for that time. And idling fees would still apply when charging ends.

I still don't understand why why most supercharging locations don't have an additional HPWC connection as well.

Because it makes no sense. Car still takes one parking space, be it at SC or HPWC. Stall doesn't cost anything compared to charger and installation. And then, some TMC users would ask you to leave HPWC bay if you don't charge there. So you need to move the vehicle twice.

 

[MacGreiner]

Which doesn't slow down below 60kW usually. So it's too late for that time. And idling fees would still apply when charging ends.

Because it makes no sense. Car still takes one parking space, be it at SC or HPWC. Stall doesn't cost anything compared to charger and installation. And then, some TMC users would ask you to leave HPWC bay if you don't charge there. So you need to move the vehicle twice.

This model has been working fine at all the chargepoint, greenlots and EVgo combo charging locations. Same approach - fastcharge dedicated parking and lvl2 dedicated parking.
Maybe now there are converters that allow non-tesla's to charge using HPWCs this might be more problematic.

 

[arnis]

All non-Tesla rapid chargers usually have more than one parking spot per one charger.
As charging ends, plug is unlocked. Next user just removes the plug. No need to move
the vehicle within like 20 minutes after session ends.
Also, often (depending on configuration) charging stops when charging current gets useless.
So it often takes less than 60 minutes, which is absolute maximum.

Again. People will NOT move the vehicle. It was not a question nor suggestion. It is how things are.
And I'm not doing anything in either direction. I just explain how people do their business. Life.
And when I say "people" I mean regular people. Those, who do not talk about cars
on daily basis in any forum, aka majority, like 99+%. Also keep in mind, that right now, a lot of
EV users are proactive pioneers. So when "people" actually start using EV-s, what I just said, will
be even more and more true.

There are multiple ways to solve a problem, but moving a vehicle when charging rate drops below
onboard charger rate, is not one of them.

 

[roblab]

"People will not move the vehicle".

I do. And so do a lot of others that think of others. Most everyone I meet at a superC are in a hurry to get charged and leave. You and your hour long "I'm more important" meal and inability to get up and walk out for a couple minutes is amazing. What if you have to go to the bathroom? Or is it the distance rather than the time?

It also takes me around 20 minutes to get enough charge to move on down the road to the next SC. Why in the world would anyone want to waste an hour?

But you're right. There are a lot of that kind of people: Selfish, thoughtless, inconsiderate. Usually they simply need to be taught to think. I appreciate your post, as it gives a few people the idea that there may be others in the world that have needs, maybe more important that their own.

 

[MacGreiner]

All non-Tesla rapid chargers usually have more than one parking spot per one charger.
As charging ends, plug is unlocked. Next user just removes the plug. No need to move
the vehicle within like 20 minutes after session ends.
Also, often (depending on configuration) charging stops when charging current gets useless.
So it often takes less than 60 minutes, which is absolute maximum.

Again. People will NOT move the vehicle. It was not a question nor suggestion. It is how things are.
And I'm not doing anything in either direction. I just explain how people do their business. Life.
And when I say "people" I mean regular people. Those, who do not talk about cars
on daily basis in any forum, aka majority, like 99+%. Also keep in mind, that right now, a lot of
EV users are proactive pioneers. So when "people" actually start using EV-s, what I just said, will
be even more and more true.

There are multiple ways to solve a problem, but moving a vehicle when charging rate drops below
onboard charger rate, is not one of them.

My experience is with the US system.We don't provide our own charging cables they are tethered, people move all the time when they are done. No issue.
The people/pioneer issue is a valid one. Better people hog a HPWC than a supercharger.

 

[arnis]

Better people hog a HPWC than a supercharger.

You talk about parking spaces? Because chargers themselves are further away from cars. When people park
to charge at SC location, they hog a stall, not a charger.
Tesla has some places with 3 stalls per ONE charger. What if all SC's would be like that? Will hogging be a problem? Ever?